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-   -   Triathlon 10Km Running Advice (http://www.time-to-run.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4406)

Hyperspace 05-05-2014 11:33 AM

Triathlon 10Km Running Advice

As recommended, thought I'd start the new thread in this section (although I'm not contemplating a Tri till Autumn now!). As mentioned, have been following the sub-40 10Km training plan this last 5 weeks after a solid three months (Jan-March+weeks rest) of Duathlon training.

Am on Day 13, second cycle now, planning to peak for a race next Sunday (May 11th). Trying to beat 40:40 (2009 Course PB & all time PB). Would like to go under 40 mins if well rested and conditions are good, however, are pragmatic about current capability.

Did a training 10km race two weeks ago at the end of the first cycle, offroad/hilly, 42:59, went out strong uphill, middle k's were weak, last km finished well)

For this current cycle, did the 5km TT (day early than scheduled) on Sat, 20:02 at local 'Park Run', relatively flat with a little offroad at end.

Felt a little fatigued going out on this if I am honest (HR took a while to get in zone). I purposefully decided to take it steady, not go out too fast and build up, however it ended just being a very equal pace all way through.

Think this was an overhang from completing some challenging, hilly intervals (5x2km & 6x1km) last week specifically targeted as prep for next weeks race which features a 40m elevation, 2-5km.

What I've felt has been lacking is the consistency in the longer runs; although I have put a few over 60mins this last 5 weeks; did one last week at 75 mins.

Have overcome some substantial calf/soleus adaptation, very sore after the more intense sessions, has now abated after various self-treatment very nicely and not a problem for the time being :yes:

As a result of the sore calf/soleus, during the last 5 weeks, where I was supposed to do an easy waddle, as a substitute, I jumped on the bike instead to keep the effort going and keep the miles up on the bike. I cycled at no more than easy pace HR and basically rode 4 times the duration (30mins Easy run = 2:00 Easy Bike).

I did a steady (but laboured in parts) 75 mins this morning, which I would have liked to have done yesterday but were feeling tired and instead followed the scheduled by taking the day off.

Hopefully this mornings long run will help contribute something to next week. Planning to finish the rest of the week as per the schedule.

My main question is surrounging final prep for next weeks race, is regarding pacing and HR etc. Since doing the Duathlon training, I have come to understand more about threshold training sessions. I set up my HR Zones accordingly for the bike and run which are slightly different which I have no doubt you are familiar with. (Bike zones being a little lower).

When doing the 2 and 1km intervals, I aimed to get my HR into the Super Threshold range, which is currently supposed to be around 160-163bpm. This has been challenging at times and only achievable on the hilly reps, hence why doing them as well as race prep. On the flat or downhill it has ended up being more Subthreshold, 154-59bpm. I have had similiar trouble when doing the Threshold sessions on the bike, ie keeping the HR up on the flat TT's.

With this in mind, on race day next week, where do you recommend I roughly aim for HR wise? I was thinking that stabilising in the SubThreshold range to 7km, and then start to wind up to 160+ in the last 3km. This suits the race route next week, as the last 3km is downhill (40m decline) where I can claw back time lost earlier in the race where the 40m elevation occurs, 2-5Km.

Effectively, I will produce a negative split mainly due to the 2-5km drag, a recovery 1km 6-7km, and then a wind up to the finish, does this sounds like a plausible strategy?

Cripes, just reading this back over, apologies for the brain dump...

Cheers and hope to hear from you soon,


TheEd 06-05-2014 10:16 AM

before going into detail .. take a look this thread:


and then 18 months later

see this post #327


we strongly recommend Day 3 to Day 8 of the running schedule to be adhered to, and while moving towards the TRI avoid swimming and cycling during those 5 days

your interest in TRI will push me towards developing the future programs

Cheers TheEd

Hyperspace 07-05-2014 05:41 PM

A Feast of Inspiration!

That guy (JamieH) is clearly very talented and well tuned in. All makes a lot sense, with plenty of food for further thought, onwards and upwards.

I now understand the plan a lot lot better from doing this whole cycle and beginning the taper down this week, makes so much more sense especially regarding the extra link (Thoughts behind...) and the compensation/super-compensation element; thanks for this insight.



Hyperspace 07-05-2014 06:02 PM

On the other side...

Earlier today, in prep for Sundays 10km, I attempted the 10 x 400m R60 at no faster than 86secs. It turned out to be a telling session.

Forgot my current best trainers; had to rely on some semi-old spares at work: 1st mistake. I believe I now properly realise the impact and risk of trying to run intervals with old trainers :duh:

A colleague from work (younger, fitter and not interested in doing a long warm up) wanted to join me as he is racing on Sunday as well, he's on par for a sub 40 (did a 19:11 5km last Sat): My 2nd & 3rd mistake. We did about a mile warm up. I should have been firmer, perhaps.

We used a flat section of road for the 400m onto some grass, an out and back, it was the only place we could find. Possibly 4th mistake (with the grass section)

After doing a 1km or so warm up with exercises, during a recce of the 400m after hitting the uneven grass section, felt lower left calf/upper soleus tightness, jogged on, then stretched.

Started the intervals ok, hitting around 85-90 secs for each 400m. Mild discomfort with calf. Carried on, carefully monitoring, it didnt get worse, however stopped at 8 reps just balance out if was serious and/or I could rest through to Sunday and get away with it. Apart from this, it was a reasonably quality session.

This afternoon it has been tight, nothing has 'popped' as such, but its sore'ish.

This strain does not feel like the recent period of 'tight calves' which I worked off with a poly roller and ice which I will start this evening?

Its definitely a nice little injury if not paid attention to.

On this basis, absolutely no 40 mins tomorrow (or can I bike instead perhaps for a longer duration, just to keep the aerobic up?).

Friday, perhaps try 30 mins, on soft ground, no 6x1mins at race pace, see how goes and then Sat decide whether to race or not.

I am not concerned at scratching the race on Sunday. I dont want cause a long term injury. After this race, I was not intending to run a 10km race until at least Sept.

In over two weeks time I have planned to switch my training over to the bike as I have entered the Etape Du Tour in the Pyrenees in France (86 miles, 12,000ft). The training plan I'm planning to use is devised by TrainingPeaks and features no running at all, its all Power based; I'm just about to fit a power meter to my bike. I suppose I can afford to take a risk on Sunday and see how I go as I will not be expecting the same level of intensity on them from the bike, however, it could cause issues and the Etape is my absolute pinnacle this summer.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly considered,

Best regards,


Hyperspace 08-05-2014 08:48 AM


Had to take day off work today to receive new power meter for bike :yes:

Poly rolled and then iced calf last night. Not sure on the sequence of doing this or immediate benefit at this stage. Can you recommend any good advice or articles on using these methods for this sort of injury?

I poly rolled calf again this morning, still sore, but not alarmingly so. Still plan to rest from running today. However, I might fit my power meter if have time and go for an easy test ride as I need to get my head round using it for as soon as possible.

Catch up again soon,


Hyperspace 12-05-2014 09:41 PM

10km Race Update
Hey TheEd,

Pulled out of Sundays race to save any risk properly injuring my calf, it was still noticeably sore on Saturday. The weather forecast was foul as well and I had to do some work travel straight after so decided it was for the best as clearly I didnt want to carry a calf injury over into to my bike training now for the Etape Du Tour in July.

So, it's an easy week on the bike this week, will keep eye on calf and maybe try a little 10-15 min waddle at end of week and follow up with any treatment as required. It's feeling better today, will be a week on Wed since it strained.

Whilst doing all the bike training this next 8-10weeks I want to try and keep some of the running conditioning in my legs. At minimum, per week, what do think I should try and include in my regime even at some cost to my bike miles/loading?

Perhaps some scaled down intervals, 3-4 x 1km at a sensible pace and maybe a 1x 40min waddle on another day, this should be manageable and might keep my legs going until Sept at which time I want to resume the 19-day cycle for my first autumn 10 km on Oct 12th..

Any thought or suggestion's greatly considered,



TheEd 22-09-2014 11:36 AM

Hyperspace, somehow I missed this post

are you still training, what is up

we will look to set-up a better structure so these posts don't get lost

how are you?


Hyperspace 25-09-2014 08:20 PM

Hey TheEd!
Great to hear from you.

Since that last post where I pulled out of that race, I've only run 5 times!

It must be the longest Ive gone with so few runs for over ten years.

Immediately after this weekend I started a tough 8-week bike training programme in prep for a French Pyrennean adventure.

I built up to riding and training on my road bike up to 200+ miles a week with between 10-20,000ft climbing. We entered and rode the Etape Du Tour in the Pyrenees in July 4 days before the TdF rode it. Absolutely stormed in exactly in 7 hours in torrential rain on the legendary Col de Tormalet.

During this time I have also been Time Trialing 10 and 25 miler with a local time trial club. Struck a 21:27 10 miler (approx avg 28mph) a few weeks ago in my first open event on my normal road bike with clip on bars. Came first in my category and won a cash prize!

I have this week started to scale down my biking this and started a new 19-day cycle to start building the running back up and to prepare for a 10km race in mid November. I am hoping to complete 3 x 19-day cycle in prep for this race. Its a reasonably flat course and a serious contender for going sub-40.

I started back last week with some short, easy waddles and tried out 3 x 1km today. My aerobic system coped well with the intervals, however, I noticed my left calf triggering.

I am very much going to tread lightly with this first cycle back. I have been doing a little conditioning off the bike, some skipping and one-leg hopping to help the calf's. Will see how it goes. Any advice at this point would be great.



TheEd 28-09-2014 01:34 PM

this is great to read .. you know, if you getting such results out of the cycling you would be able to only do the quality sessions of day 3 to day 8 and still run pretty well off that

next swimming ;)

great to read things are grand


Hyperspace 14-11-2014 10:02 PM

Hey TheEd!
Now then TheEd!

How are you and the family?

All good here, been taking a break from the cycling this last 5-6 weeks to ramp up the running. Although its been tough to get the conditioning back in the calves/achilles, its been fantastic switching back; save so much time with the running sessions being shorter!

Have the Leeds City Abbey Dash 10km on Sunday, its a fast, city run with over 10,000 runners. I clocked 43:27 last year with relatively limited running in legs, think I got 2 decent sub-45, 19-day cycles in as prep.

This year I've managed to get 5 weeks in building up to this Sunday. I repeated Days 1-14 of the sub-45 twice and then this last week finished the full 19-day cycle.

Feeling very much on top of things and hoping that perhaps with my previous, strong months on the bike earlier this year, I might be able to find the form on Sunday to get as near to 40 mins as poss on this fast course.

I'm heading back to a structured, 12-month long Time Trial focused bike programme next week for preparing to contemplate on competing in some National age group Time Trial events later next year and perhaps trying out some duatlons/triathlons.

I had a question regarding your previous recommendation about maintaining some running form using days 3-8 whilst cycling.

To keep some sort of running form, how would you recommend I integrate days 3 to 8 as you suggested, perhaps over a 14-day period i.e., as long as I get one long run (70mins), 1 x 4x2km session and maybe 1 x 6x1km session every 14-days throughout winter or is this not necessary?

If this idea is not ideal, can you recommend any maintenance strategies I could adopt to keep my legs attuned,



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