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Sub40 10k training (General inquiry)


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Old 23-03-2018, 12:03 PM   #1
MitchelC
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Icon7 Sub40 10k training (General inquiry)

Hi ! Im currently at sub40 with a PB of 44:13 (Day 13) for the 10k distance. My 5k best is 21:37. I've been having a hard time meeting the required pace for the interval runs. Im 10-20 seconds off the required pace usually. Definitely not having trouble with the easy runs and the 1hr and 30 long run. Any tips on breaking 40 minutes for the 10k distance? Also, once i had a side stitch when i was doing the 5k paced run. Ive read that core workouts could really lessen the chances of me experiencing one mid-run. Any ideas on how to incorporate that with the program? Or am I just rushing; perhaps, my body's still adjusting to the new mileage and pace? Although, i've experienced a setback before when i was trying to beat 55 minutes (did 2 cycles of it before i got through 55).

Here are the splits for my last 5 x 2000m (sub40):
1st 2000m: 8:19
2nd: 8:46
3rd: 9:02
4th: 9:28
5th: 9:12

Here are the splits for my last 6 x 1000m (sub40):
1st km: 4:01 min/km
2nd km: 4:10
3rd km: 4:24
4th km: 4:27
5th km: 4:29
6th km: 4:23 min/km


I'd like to know your thoughts !

Thanks

Last edited by MitchelC : 23-03-2018 at 02:50 PM. Reason: Specific questions
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Old 24-03-2018, 08:05 AM   #2
TheEd
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Welcome to the forums Mitchel, and congrats on going through the cycles and improving to where you are now, a great achievement

in order to make the 2k and 1k sessions specific to the individual, you should consider taking either a recent 4k or 5k time and working out your individual pace from the Program Tips

http://www.time-to-run.com/training/10k/programtips.htm

You are ready to train on the sub 40 minute 10k program and all you need is the pace for your needs.

it would be best to make a short-term goal of breaking 42:30, as well as the goal of breaking 20:30 for the 5k

have you done any off-period and build-up training programs?

the side stitch is a difficult one, it can be related to what you ate or drank before the session, as well as, that you could have gone out too quickly during the 5k paced run?

doing strengthening sessions can only benefit you and your running, and when you new to strength work, we recommend that you add it to your training after Day 8 in the beginning, and avoid doing a session a day before you expected to run faster.

Hopefully, this is easy to understand

for your 2k session, look to run easier in the first 3 x 2k and then up the pace as possible, always work on confidence building

please ask more questions where needed

and welcome

TheEd
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Old 24-03-2018, 01:27 PM   #3
MitchelC
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Hello Ed!

Good day! How are you doing?!

As you've advised, I've decided to change my training paces according to what you've instructed in the link. Based on my 5k best of 21:37, I came up with these in order to break 42:30 for the 10k and 20:30 (5k):
  • 4:25 min/km for the 5 x 2000m R90
  • 4:10 - 4:15 min/km for 6 x 1000m R60
  • 4:15 min/km (race pace) for the fartlek

Also, I'd like to ascertain my pace for the 6x1000m. Should it be 4:05 - 4:15 min/km? I noticed that all the programs that I've finished would usually let me go 5-10 seconds faster than the required pace; kindly clarify.

Should I also change the pace for the 10x400m?:
  • From 10x400m R60 (86seconds; 3:35min/km) to 10x400m R60 (98seconds; that's 4:05 min/km)

Also:
I haven't done any off-period or build-up training. After i finish each program, i go through the required 3 recovery days and proceed to the next one (e.g. sub55 to sub50).
I may have gone out too quickly during that run. I ended up with a time of 23:40 during that 5k paced run. I usually just do 2-3 sips of water after my pre-run stretch. No meals 2-3 hours prior. Although it can induce a side stitch, that may have not been the case for me that day.
I'll incorporate strength training along with my running after day 8 of the next cycle and only before easy runs.
Noted! I'll try to run the first 3x2000m smoothly next time and up the pace during the last two. I may end up with a better performance that way

Thank you for the advice. Greatly appreciated!
Have a great day ahead!
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Old 26-03-2018, 09:22 AM   #4
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OK .. lets go through this

for the 1k session, only speed up to 4.05 over the last 2 x 1k, otherwise keep it between 4.10 to 4.15 per k

drop the 10 x 400m session and replace it with

3 x 1600m @ 4.10 to 4.15 per k with 3 minute Rest between each 1600m

don't take the pre-run sips of water before the run, lets see if that also assists

regarding off-period and build-up, we recommend this to avoid stagnation, even if it takes longer to get back to form after the build-up, you do jump to a new level.

We can look how things go during this cycle

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Old 26-03-2018, 03:48 PM   #5
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Okay , will be incorporating the 3 x 1600m next sub40 cycle. However, as I'm already more than 3 months into the program (progressing from the sub55 program to the sub40 and all the programs in-between), that'd be later on. I'll take the off-period and build-up as soon as im done with this sub40 cycle as recommended. My calves are feeling heavy lately, i hope the off-period takes care of it. Are there specific paces for the sessions in those programs or should i focus more on monitoring my heart rate during these runs?

Thanks in advance
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Old 26-03-2018, 05:54 PM   #6
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best not to do 400m session, especially if calves are tired

as for the paces for the off-period, are you able to provide any heart rate data or if you have not a heart rate monitor, can you say what your different paces for easy runs etc, have been till now

thanks TheEd
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Old 27-03-2018, 03:24 AM   #7
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Hi Ed!
I got my easy paces from the training pace calculator in the runner's world website. It gave me a pace of 5:29min/km for easy runs which agrees with your advice that easy runs should be at least a minute slower than race pace.

Here's yesterday's 40min easy run:
1st km: 5:22 min/km
2nd km: 5:20
3rd km: 5:21
4th km: 5:17
5th km: 5:20
6th km: 5:11
7th km: 5:00
0.66 km: 4:45 min/km

Basically, i try to keep it on or below 5:29min/km; the closer to that pace the better (that's my mindset). I refuse to push too much during these runs to better prepare or condition my body for the hard sessions. This is my pace for the 1hr easy runs, 40min easy, and the 30min easy runs. .

My pace for the 1hr 30min long run is at 5:29-6:12min/km. I covered 16.30km in my last long run.

I just finished my 6x1min fartlek w/ 1min slow today:
Here are the paces for the fast ones (in order)

4:03
4:23
3:57
3:45
4:03
3:52

Regarding the heart rate monitor, right now I'm using the garmin forerunner 35. Although its paces are accurate, im not quite sure about it's built-in heart rate monitor. I know it wont be as accurate as the chest straps. Would that suffice though?

Kindly let me know what I should change and do next.
Have a pleasant day !
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Old 27-03-2018, 07:20 AM   #8
TheEd
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from a coaching perspective, it would be interesting to see your heart rates compared to the sessions you do, so if you able to provide those HRs it would be great.

we wont interfere with your current cycle, as you seem to be quite far already

feedback great

TheEd
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Old 29-03-2018, 04:18 AM   #9
MitchelC
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Hello Ed!

I finished my first attempt for sub40 today. I tried to maintain an even pace at the beginning as i wanted to keep it easy; hoping i can up the pace by the last 2 kms. My goal was to maintain the pace on or below 4:20min/km. Unfortunately, i was not able to do so; i finished 47:54. I found it hard to push and maintain the pace all throughout; my calves felt pretty heavy by the 5th km and felt that way the rest of the session.
Here are the splits:

1st km: 4:19 min/km
2nd km: 4:31
3rd km: 4:43
4th km: 4:38
5th km: 4:47
6th km: 4:47
7th km: 4:56
8th km: 5:04
9th km: 5:03
10th km: 5:02 min/km

Good weather though. Just 23C and no sunlight.
There seems to be no way to upload the HR data here. Do you happen to have a garmin account?
Id like to know your thoughts about this. How can i improve further?
Hoping to do better next time still!
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Old 30-03-2018, 02:16 PM   #10
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Hi Mitchel, are you at the end of a cycle now?

you can write some of your average heart rates for the various sessions you doing, and then we can get an idea from that.

When do you have an event planned?

How are your calf muscles now?

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