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sub 35min after marathon training


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Old 13-10-2010, 01:53 PM   #21
derele
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Yes, thanks. It makes sense to think of the development of particular "pace-abilities" instead of abstract physiology.
I was looking forward to the 400s because I did not use them before, now I had to skip them and I have to wait for the next cycle.

I did a ~1hr run with only one 2k speed-up to threshold pace (~3:47min/km) yesterday. My back-pain is getting better slowly but steadiely. Btw I noticed your plans do not include any running at a Threshold/Half-Marathon pace, do you think this is obsolete and the faster workouts are more effective.

I will do some easy running during the next days till the race.

derele
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Old 13-10-2010, 02:54 PM   #22
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Hi derele .. the programs are progressive and it makes no sense at all to provide online programs with everything in the programs which creates a higher risk of injury etc

so the intention is to keep everything simple and then to build on the program as the runner develops

to start with the programs focus on the 2k - 1k and long run then with results from minimal to begin adding various aspects to the program this is only done once the runner goes through a few cycles and then goes towards the build up program and then onto the cycles again and then through the process again

if you do 5 x 2000m @ 3.30 per k ... 6 x 1k @ 3.20 per k and your long run

and you go through the cycles and line up healthy for a race

then you should race 10k around 35 minutes plus 25 to 45 seconds max slower

these programs have been tried and tested in a squad environment over the years and have got results accordingly

hope this helps to better understand the simplicity of the approach

Cheers

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Old 13-10-2010, 04:15 PM   #23
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I did not mean to doubt the quality of the program. I am sure it is good, otherwise it would not want to do it! As I said, I am looking forward to starting the first cycle next week!

I am sure I will run the race-pace once I can run the training paces. My ability to run fast in training is very limited: I only managed once to run 10k sub 40 in training, about a week before my 1:19:57 HM.

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Old 14-10-2010, 04:52 AM   #24
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the internet always comes across in the wrong manner .. the strength of the program is being able to do the 2000m session at the 10km pace, the 1000m session and 400m 3k pace sessions will be the easier than the 2k

once you start the cycle feedback will be important as it may feel as though it is too little after your marathon training, so we can change a few things once you have done the first 5 days of the new cycle

Cheers

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Old 17-10-2010, 05:12 PM   #25
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Hi TheEd,

raced on Saturday:
|Split| Time | Avg HR | Max HR
| 1 | 00:03:30 158 167
| 2 | 00:03:37 168 171
| 3 | 00:03:35 170 172
| 4 | 00:03:32 172 173
| 5 | 00:03:34 172 173
| 6 | 00:03:35 172 173
| 7 | 00:03:39 171 173
| 8 | 00:03:39 172 174
| 9 | 00:03:34 174 176
| 10 | 00:03:36 178 181
|total| 00:36:09 171 181

36:09 is actually better than I hoped! The weather was rainy, the course was wet and slippery. I had a little cold and wanted to take it easy, it did not feel like a 10k till km9. From there it was the anaerobic pain I missed for so long during marathon training ;-). I raced 10ks at a much higher av. HR half a year ago and it will probably only be a matter of lactic acid and pain tolerance to bring my time down to 35min.
Hurray!
I took a day of today to fully cure my cold.

derele
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Old 17-10-2010, 06:41 PM   #26
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derele .. this is very much the result of your good marathon training and I would suggest you monitor yourself to see your recovery .. there is plenty of time to get towards sub 35 minutes but if you don't be careful now you can get sick and in a way mess up for the future

be patient as you have a great 'background' after the marathon training which will be very helpful when you train towards the sub 35

but for now recovery is most important

TheEd
ps.. nice time to run after a marathon
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Old 19-10-2010, 02:46 PM   #27
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Okay!
I had two easy weeks before the 10k, because moving back to Germany and getting organized took some time (80k and 45k week totals).
Some other things have changed as well: Running to work is not as comfy here as it was in Scotland and I will probably limit it to two days a week. I want to run more with others instead of alone and made some efforts to connect with runners of similar abilities.
I will do the 5x2k session tomorrow morning together with another runner, who is finishing 10ks in the 36 range. I know it is one day too early according to the schedule, but I feel relaxed and ready to go.
I will aim for 3:35-3:30/km but want to use longer rests, because I am used to them from my previous training. Probably R180 instead of R90 to begin with. I will see if I can cut down the rest.
Does this make sense?

Runs done/planed since Sat 10k:
Sun: Rest
Mon: pm 16k @ 4:45min/km
Tue: am 6k @ 5:30min/km pm 14k @ 4:45min/km
Wed: 5x2k @ 3:35-3:30

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Old 19-10-2010, 03:35 PM   #28
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according to the cycle to start on a Tuesday Day 1 .. so Thursday would be the day for the 2000's

Tues (today) would be 1hr to 75 minutes

it should be able to switch round with tomorrow being an easy run

hope this is OK

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Old 20-10-2010, 09:00 PM   #29
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The session today was an epic fail:

Rep km1/km2 av.hr max.hr

1 3:37/3:35 168 176
R180
2 3:38/3:38 172 179
stomach problems -> bushes -> R???
3 3:40/3:44 171 180
stomach problems -> puked up -> R180
4 3:58/4:01 168 176

Stopped here. It was horrible and I couldn't do any better. I did the session with a strong runner, who managed the 4th rep in a decent time, this should have been plenty motivation for me...But I still have to get used to hard reps in the mornings, as I will do all Interval training with this other strong runner on early Wednesday mornings.
I know the plan says I should have done the 5th rep no matter in what time, can I compensate for the lost rep somehow?

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Old 21-10-2010, 06:53 PM   #30
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give yourself a few days easy running and let's take stock of things in a few days time

hope all goes OK

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