Not sure which training program
I'm new to this site. And it is a great site with great info and feedback. Thanks for setting my account up (forum mods). It seems the right step to make in trying to structure a training program for myself.
Im based in the UK - near Oxford and have been running since Jan 2009 - maybe a little before but I cant quite remember.
I ran my first 10k in May 2009 (44.18) and since then I have progressed to a PB of 38.53 (XC).
10k is my favoured distance. I've only ran x1 half marathon. Reading half back in 2010 and got 1.35. That was all road and I didnt find it very exciting. Although running into Madejski stadium (home of Reading football club) for the finish was pretty cool. No I dont support reading.
XC is my main enthusiasm although I must add that track running is a lot more enjoyable than I thought it would be. And I havnt been track running for very long - only 6 months and that is purely for training not racing. I'm not even sure there are track races for recreational runners anyway. I think running clubs take part in some but anyways...
I'm not in any running club and run solo pretty much all the time although I welcome anyone to join me and have had all sorts of abilities join me on runs.
I found 5k runs really enjoyable but these have just been Park Run and I used to go to Abingdon Park Run evey week. My PB for 5k at the Abingdon park run is 18.16.
I've come to the point... or learned that I'm needing some experienced insite into how to set up a training program which will put me in good stead to break 38 mins this year.:please:
I did look at the training programs listed and almost just walked away with the sub 40 program but wasnt sure it was right for me as there is another note with it that says for anyone who has gone sub 45.
So 38 mins for a 10k XC light trail is my target.
Apologies if this has already been in discussion I did try to forum search and am sorry to say that I could not get it to work using the term sub 38.
Training, nutrition and rest are all parts of the equation I need to sort out to hit 38mins. I like to think I have it in me and need the wealth of knowledge you have here to aid me.
What info do you need ? I've only had a GPS watch the last year and you are welcome to that data. Ive always been one to run/train how I feel and think I can gage myself quite well because I ran mostly without a watch but I also realise (since ive had the watch) that the watch is a great help for interval training.
I sometimes go on longer runs. Anything up to 15 miles. I say 15 miles as that's the furthest ive ran on a training run but I dont do that regularly. Other than running I use my MTB on my commute to work 5 miles each way, daily. I have found that has helped keep me out of injury (touch wood).
Cheers guys I look forward to any advice.
Hi Gaz, and welcome to the forums
one of the first things we ask for is a 4k time-trial
choose a route that you can use in the future
once you run the 4k time-trial, report back and we will put you on the right 'track'
from what I know there are 10k track races around where I am sure you are able to enter
quickly over to you
ps.. was busy with server things the past 2 days, all sorted now, and hence the slow response
pps. thanks for the donation, it is much appreciated
Thanks for getting back to me. Today I did the requested 4k time trial.
Please see attached :
In a nutshell - 15.26 (3.50 min/km)
I use a Tom Tom Runner Cardio GPS Watch. It seems the HR drops out here and there. Not sure why. Probably because the watch is overpriced and sh.. :taped:. Frustrating.
Ok so let me know your thoughts and how to proceed.
4k TIME TRAIL - Complete
Hello The Ed
Apologies if another post on this surfaces at some point (I replied earlier today - weird).
Any how I completed the 4k Time Trail today as you advised.
x10 LAPS / 400m (track)
In a nutshell - 15.26 (3.50 min/km)
If the attachment is not legible / viewable then the figures are as follows :
1 - 01.23 (3.26 min/km) (HR 152)
2 - 01.27 (3.35 min/km) (HR 163)
3 - 01.31 (3.46 min/km) (HR 150)
4 - 01.35 (3.53 min/km) (HR 117)
5 - 01.35 (3.56 min/km) (HR 81)
6 - 01.33 (3.50 min/km) (HR 81)
7 - 01.35 (3.54 min/km) (HR 81)
8 - 01.34 (3.53 min/km) (HR 81)
9 - 01.36 (3.57 min/km) (HR 80)
10 - 01.28 (3.38 min/km) (HR 108)
Let me know your thoughts.
I included HR although Im quite sure the HR just dropped off mid-way, not sure why. Probably because the watch is a Tom Tom Runner Cardio - overpriced and sh...:taped:
Hi Blakerunner, do you know how to work out your training paces from the 4k time?
here is the Program Tips which provides you with a formula for your pace
we can still get going, as Tuesday is Day 1 and Day 3 Thursday
that is if you are ready to jump on the schedule
So the verdict is ?
Hello 'The Ed'
I think I can work out the times. Should I follow the sub 40 then ? and run the 1000's and 2000's according to what times I work out from the 4k time trial ?
My goal for this year is to break 38 on 10k
I can begin the program tonight when I get home.
I have some figures following the 2k session. What a session! omg
The 2 session was very tough. So much so that I felt totally wiped out. Just a lack of experience for this session type I guess.
I have done 1 mile intervals before but not regularly.
- - - - -
So I have some figures following this 2k session. Do you want to see them right away ? or do I just get back to you once I have gone through the program cycle ? and have a filled out form ?
The figures are disappointing in a way but also I done a few things which I wont do next time. That said it was hard - very hard so that means I tried hard.
What I did do :
• Used a road loop that goes around my town as a quiet perimeter road. I ran (easy) to the location there as a warm up and then stretched some more for a few minutes.
Good• Used the watch set for 2k intervals
• Had my target pace based on the calculations from the 4k time trial
GoodNext time :
I shall use the watch set for pace and use the track instead.
In the summer I shall have more options for where I can do those sessions.
Ofcourse I could continue with this course for the 2k sessions. It was tough but I like the challenge.
In total. Doing the 2k session at this location meant I ran 13.5k as I ran to the location and then hobbled home.
I really felt lactic build up after the first 2k interval but it dispersed pretty well during the session. Something like that.
Here are the splits for the 2K session
try to find a loop course with less hills in them or try to train on a tartan surface
if you keep this course, then comparison is done related to the course, however with the elevation changes, you will find it more difficult to focus on getting into the groove of things
there are different articles related to the 10k programs and pointers on how to race your best 10k all related to the programs
but for now, simply go through the routine and provide feedback and with the process learn and become a more experienced runner, always with the knowledge that we train to race, and that training is exactly that, training
ps. with more feedback, we shall learn more, thanks for the feedback
TRAINING CYCLE 1
Hi there 'TheEd'
How are you doing ? Well I completed the x6 1000s R60 session today. I know that should have been yesterday but i couldnt run yesterday so I done them today.
If the attachments are not legible / viewable then the figures are as follows :
1 - 3.24 min/km (HR 138)
2 - 3.43 min/km (HR 96)
3 - 3.45 min/km) HR 104)
4 - 3.43 min/km (HR 99)
5 - 3.47 min/km (HR 102)
6 - 3.40 min/km (HR 112)
These I guess are average heart rates so taking into account the 60 seconds rest per K. SO i have attached a HR graph if that is better.
Ive been filling out a training planner as advised. So adding my effort and comments. I guess ill send you that once the cycle is complete or is that just for me ?
This session was not as hard going as the 2K ofcourse but I put in a lot of effort and it was first thing this morning (7.00am). I believe I should have been targeting 3.46 per k. Anyways i feel good and feel like I could handle 30 mins easy later on but I know that will lead to injuries so im going to follow the plan as strictly as i can.
Cycle 01 - Day 10
Hello 'The Ed'
I hope you're having a good day. Are you running yourself at the moment ?
The plan is flying by - Already Day 11.
Last night I completed* the EASY 60min session.
*Actually I did 53.43 / 11.58km so not quite 60mins.
I thought you may like to see some different stats for comparison.
The pace was sufficient for talking and I felt it was easy. I also felt good at the end and had no lactic what so ever. Legs dont feel sore or anything today so the EASY 30 tonight should be a 'walk in the park'.
A couple of questions.
Why is it important not to go under 19.10 for the 5k paced run ?
I want to snub the EASY 60 on sunday (DAY 13) for my favoured XC hill run. I enjoy this run so much that it is pretty much the reason I run.
Monday is also only an EASY 30 so good time to recover ?
good going, the 1k session is normally made tougher as it comes on Day 8
read: Thoughts behind the programs
reading this will hopefully give you more understanding about the process and what is happening
ps.. if you provide feedback here we are able to learn more about you, so all looking good
it is performing when it counts
the run on Sunday is no problem, however as mentioned above, do note that the day of performance is the following weekend, so we should do everything to assist this goal
the major aim is to train towards achieving the best performance on the days that count.
Cycle 01 - Day 12
Hi there 'The Ed' thanks for your advice.
And I hope you're having a great weekend.
Well I couldn't run today. Yep cant even get 20 minutes to myself. So thats the 5k paced run out the window. Weekends are a nightmare to train.
Still good to run XC and hills rather than the EASY 60 tomorrow ? I doubt ill here back before then so ill just do the hills. Its an EASY 30 mins on Monday.
ill send all the stats. I've been looking more attentively at heart rate zones the last few days and adjusting the zones on my GPS watch a bit more. Would you mind having a look over them if I send you a grab of the data ?
I dont tend to run according to a heart rate zone anyways but am thinking I may actually have to do that especially if Im running on irregular ground etc... where I cannot maintain a certain pace because of elevations.
Cycle 01 - Day 13
Hello 'The Ed'
Thanks for your advice.
After reading the 'thoughts behind the programs' I decided to just go with what the plan says and did a comfortable 60 minutes. You may laugh but before now I would often enough do a Park Run on a Saturday - possibly even get a PB and then race the next day on a Sunday morning.
I realise its DAY 14 today. This is just a report for yesterday.
simply roll with the program and keep it simple, and with time, the results will come. The main aim, is to train the body to perform on the day that you want your best performance.
The intention is to keep this process as simple as possible and to adapt to the sessions before increasing the workload progressively
Cycle 01 - Day 15
Yea rolling along ok I think.
Yesterday - Last night was DAY 15 and the x10 400m ®60 session.
It went well. I found myself a long straight path out of the way where I could run along with no problems.
Attached are the stats :
What do you think the chances are of breaking 38 in the next 8 - 10 weeks ?
Effort wise - last night was a close 5.
Cycle 1 - Day 17
Good day 'TheEd'
I'm almost at the end of this cycle. :mmm:
I'll carry on through and back to DAY 1. Ill read up on 'The Off Training Period'. Not sure that affects me yet. Ill read up.
Meanwhile I did the 30mins + 18mins Fartlek yesterday (DAY 17). Good fun although I really didnt feel like running to be honest. Would much have preferred to have sat down and had a cup of coffee. So I went out and ran anyway and the coffee tasted better for it.
So first I did the EASY 30 mins :
And immediately followed this with the Fartlek session of - 6x 1min FAST / 1 MIN SLOW / 1 min RACE (total 18mins).
I did get a bit mixed up and screwed up the order a bit. Im not even 100% certain I understood it right. :confused:
Here's what I did. See attached :
Ok so rest day today (DAY 18) :)
Tomorrow - Race day Saturday (DAY 19). 5k Park Run(s) are ofcourse on a Saturday but I cant attend those anymore as I take my kids to their activities. Soooo should I just do a tempo run on Sat or do my hill run on Sun ?
Alright well I hope you're staying injury free and running like a gazelle.
Best do a 4k time-trial
Cycle 2 - 4k Time Trial
Hello The Ed
I did the 4k time trial this morning. Wet, windy, cold and getting up at 5.00am to do it didnt fill me with joy but at least it was a quick run.
I felt stronger today but the numbers haven't changed really although it looks like my previous time trial logged at 15.26 was incorrect and should have been 9 seconds quicker at 15.17. This is because my watch continued counting before I managed to turn it off (ou can see this in the attachment where it logeed LAP11) and I just looked at the time on the upload site and posted that as my time. But today I added all the splits together on the new for a comparison with the old and I noticed the LAP 11 and the few seconds the watch was adding on before I could turn it off. So please see the attached and let me know.
x10 LAPS / 400m (track)
In a nutshell - 15.03 (3.49 min/km) - 14 seconds quicker than before. I should have killed the last couple of laps. I feel I could have pushed it more. But we all say that dont we. The fact is I didnt which is probably because i couldn't - but I will next time :p
Ive put the x2 - 4k time trials. Previous vs new next to each other so you can do a quick comparison.
If the attachment is not legible then the figures from today are as follows :
1 - 01.25 (3.31 min/km) (HR 149)
2 - 01.26 (3.35 min/km) (HR 163)
3 - 01.30 (3.41 min/km) (HR 166)
4 - 01.31 (3.44 min/km) (HR 163)
5 - 01.32 (3.48 min/km) (HR 167)
6 - 01.33 (3.50 min/km) (HR 166)
7 - 01.33 (3.49 min/km) (HR 167)
8 - 01.33 (3.52 min/km) (HR 169)
9 - 01.31 (3.44 min/km) (HR 170)
10 - 01.29 (3.35 min/km) (HR 171)
Alright let me know your thoughts. I will ofcourse work out splits for the other runs based on this.
an improvement, but do note that the early start could very easily have a affected you
on we go
edit: by the way, do not speed up the sessions, look to run them at the same pace but focus on relaxing at speed while maintaining pace. If you go through the sessions well, then you can look at things differently in other parts of the program
I did the 4k trial the same time of day as before so my "chronobiological" influence should have been the same. Yes you have a good article on that.
x5 - 2Ks ®90 tonight. cant wait :rip:
Cycle 2 - Day 3
5 X 2000m R90s (7.50 / 3.55km) T
Hi there The 'Ed'
How are you doing ?
I hope you've had a good week.
I'm working my way through another cycle of the sub 40. As advised I haven't changed pace times based on the latest 4k time trial.
Last night I completed the 5 x 2000 ®90s.
I felt strong and optimistic. I was better with pace but I'm still pretty bad i think. I also made a mistake by picking a section of the route where I had to run 1km and then turn around and then run the other 1km to make the 2km interval (this was in order to avoid the hilly part of the route). The slowing and turning at the end of each 1km has interfered with the average pace (yes I know i didnt think). And for this reason I dont feel the figures are as accurate as they should be (since you only have to slow for a second to below your target pace and then that pace will be calculated into the average).
I have figures attached for you. I apologise, as Im still not helping myself by making mistakes with an ideal route. I know I said that i would go to the track but it was not possible yesterday morning and so I had to run the same place as before. The same location and path as before but avoiding the hills.
Here's a good thing though. I didnt feel totally battered at the end and i didnt have the lactic build up during the run. I ran home tired but still able. it did end up being a long run though for me. I made an effort to run the last 2km faster and each 2km towards the end I would speed up for the last 100-200m. Heart Rate averaged between 160-170 on each work 2km interval.
I was thinking perhaps I could do the session again instead of the 1km session ?
Any advise most welcome
Alright speak soon
Cycle 02 - Day 08
x6 - 1000m ®60
Hi there 'The Ed'
I went through this session rather badly I think although I felt it was ok (at the time).
I was constantly checking the watch for pace and upped the pace whenever I saw that the pace shown was above 4.00. Most of the time I thought it was actually around 3.50 but it seems I was wrong as the figures here attached tell a different story.
I couldn't make it to the track so had to do this session on the road this time. Unfortunately.
I did feel at the beginning I was quite fluid and went along quite nicely. The last couple I felt sluggish and had to drive my legs forward. I tried to make sure my form wasnt compromised. This is contrary to last time where I had a days rest before (due to a missed 30min run) so perhaps this time round I was a bit more tired as the day before it was an easy 10k.The other difference is that previously it was on track which I guess is generally slightly faster.
Ill learn hmm
Anyways if you have any advice let me know.
look rather to feeling comfortable, for an easy session, start your run, focus on being relaxed and then running feeling as comfortable as possible
then after the run compare the stats
enjoy the runs, don-t make them so technical
keep it simple and long/term everything will fall into place
Cycle 02 - Day 10
Thanks for the advice Ed
Here are stats from last night. I'm not sure if its my imagination but I seem to be more uncomfortable on longer runs when im going really slow for this reason I just went at a pace i was comfortable with rather than making it really easy. That said I would still consider the session an easy run. Other than feeling really hungry the run didnt trigger any voices in my head. I did a couple of 400m tempos at the end to get up to 60 mins.
Speak soon then and I hope you have a great weekend.
do remember, easy pace up to 60 minutes is often considered to be around 1 minute per k slower than what you would race 10k in currently
all looks good and hopefully you have a few events to race quite soon
Cycle 2: Day 12
PROGRAM SCHEDULE: 5K PACED RUN - AIM SUB 20 (no faster than 19.10)
Hello 'The Ed'
I've mentioned before that doing an a.m Park Run or any morning run Saturday is not something I can commit to so at any random time on this day I do a paced run although its not exactly 5k. i hope thats not a problem.
I do a XC run (6.58km) at any random time when I can fit it in on this day.
I did a time of 28.08. My quickest time on this run is 27.07 and I will add that this was in dry conditions where this time was done in the wet and it was boggy in places.
HR dropped out so I have nothing to show on that.
I have a couple more runs to post up later.
See if you able to set-up a 2k loop that you can run twice for your 4k assessment run, as that would be beneficial on occasion
hope all is going well
Cycle 2: Day 14
PROGRAM SCHEDULE: EASY 30MINS
Hi 'The Ed' thanks for your reply.
Would doing the x2 - 2k loop session you mention be to gauge an accurate 2k pace ? so in the next 4k time trial I do x2 - 2k intervals and give you the splits for those.
As mentioned. I have some other data to post up.
30min easy attached :
This is on road
Cycle 2: Day 15
PROGRAM SCHEDULE: 10 X 400m R60s (400/86s - no faster)
I found this session this time round particularly tough and I strained my left calf. Its nothing major but is a bit sore. I completed the session regardless. i would have stopped if I felt I was doing more damage. Perhaps i did. Anyways I missed the EASY 40min session last night because of this. I decided to rest it.
I'm good to go out tonight for the [ EASY 30mins + 6 x 1min FAST / 1min SLOW / 1min RACE PACE F ] session.
Meanwhile I have data for the 10x400 R60 session attached :
Anything to advise then it would be great to get your feedback otherwise ill take on board what you have said and continue through the program. There is a race in May that i am very keen to break 38 mins on. On that course my PB is 39.29. Its quite a hilly XC and so my long runs at the weekend will involve hills. I'm not going to fool myself. To break 38mins on this course for me would be eye poppingly good for me and would actually involve my eyes popping out.
Ill report back tomorrow on the [ EASY 30mins + 6 x 1min FAST / 1min SLOW / 1min RACE PACE F ] session. im doing tonight.
Cycle 02: Day 17
PROGRAM SCHEDULE: EASY 30mins + 6 x 1min FAST / 1min SLOW / 1min RACE PACE F
Hello and good day 'TheEd'
I'm almost at the end of CYCLE 02.
:mmm:Do you think I would benefit from doing the 4k time trial again at this point before rolling back through the program ?
Last night I did the 30mins + 18mins Fartlek. The calf made me aware there was a strain there but it wasnt a problem and I completed the session no problem.
...although I mixed up the fartlek part again and alternated: 1min SLOW / 1min FAST / 1min RACE (rather then the specified order of FAST / SLOW / RACE)
First I did the EASY 30 mins (which turned out at 26mins) and then followed this immediately with the Fartlek session.
Ok so rest day today (DAY 18)
Tomorrow ( DAY 19 ) ill do the XC tempo run and see if I can beat my current time which i posted for DAY 12.
I hope you're well. Speak soon.
How did things go?
4k time-trial for assessment. Testers from 5 to 8k
hope this makes sense
Hi there 'TheEd'
Thanks for your reply.
Just an update on the last few days.
My calf problem has not gone away but it has got progressively better so thats good. Because of that I have not done nay major sessions since DAY 17 - ( EASY 30mins + 6 x 1min FAST / 1min SLOW / 1min RACE PACE F )
DAY 18 (FRI)
DAY 19 (SAT) - Nothing
I did not get a chance to get out and run.
DAY 20 (SUN)
XC Hills - This was more to do with strengthening my calf. It helped.
DAY 21 (MON)
EASY 30 mins
END OF CYCLE
I havnt started the cycle again really. I was wandering if to do the 400m time trial as I havnt felt my best because of the calf.
DAY 1 (TUES)
EASY 30 mins
If I was following the cycle exactly this should have been a 60-70 min session but I didnt feel I was up for it.
DAY 2 (WED)
EASY 30 mins
DAY 3 - THURSDAY (TODAY)
What to do ? This should be the 2k interval session.
From what I understand of your last reply. I think I should do a 4k time trial or a distance up to 8k ?
Preferably i would like to do just 30mins tonight and rather than rest tomorrow I can either do the 2k session or time trial. I have the day off tomorrow because it's 'Good Friday' so have an opportunity to get onto a 2k straight, flat hard gravel track.
What do you think ?
By the way do you think cycling every day (10miles total) has any bearing ones ability to perform in the sessions ? I am not sure. I dont think it does but my legs have felt pretty heavy last few runs and im unsure if its from the calf or just the cycling and running taking its toll.
Speak soon - have a nice easter
Gaz, best you do not do any sprinting and trying to get the calf muscle sorted, as it can lead to other problems
keep us informed
CYCLE 03 - Time Trial
I hope all is good with you. Thanks for your concerns.
The calf is fine. :) We've just had a bank holiday easter weekend over in England and so Saturday (26th March) I was able to take part in a local Park Run. Since I had more time to do things this weekend and space to do a quick run Saturday a.m
The calf didnt complain one bit. Since the end of cycle 02 of the program I have been strengthening it up with some XC hill work and run every other day moderate pace to enable recovery. Anyhow it worked and so I did the Park Run with no trouble. Not a pb for the Park Run but it was not bad.
Result and pace attached.
I was glad to finish. It was not comfortable at all. I mean it never is but I would add that I struggled. Effort 5. Still enjoyable of course, I forgot how much I enjoy Park Run.
So I have not started another cycle of the program. Im planning to begin again tonight and so an EASY 60 minutes. This will be the 3rd time going through the program.
Take care and speak soon
Cycle 03: Day 01
PROGRAM SCHEDULE: EASY 60mins
Hello and good afternoon 'TheEd'
I’ve started CYCLE 03 of the program. (going through the program for the 3rd time)
Last night I did the EASY 60mins session although this turned out at 55 mins. It was the same route as before but I guess just not as much traffic stopping.
EASY 30 tonight and then the. . . dun! dun! dar!!!! . . .
...2K session - can’t wait :yikes:
I hope you're well. Speak soon.
On another note.
On the physics side of things and specifically referring to the faster paced sessions. Do you know if it is the staying in a HR zone that benefits you on the sessions or teaching the legs to go round quicker ? I have found that trying to get the legs to go round quicker despite whatever fitness you have is something you need to train for aswell. For instance I was looking at the pace you need to be able to get to (put your cup of tea down) achieve a 4min mile. It was just out of interest (before you laugh). And I could not get to the pace for more than a few second bursts even down a hill going as fast as I could. it is something i try and get to each time I get to the end of a hill session i do. Just as an experiment.
What im trying to establish is the core component of training. I guess its everything. You can say its the combination of this and that and sleep etc... but im wandering if in the faster paced sessions is it keeping the HR at an uncomfortable rate or is it pushing the legs beyond their comfort zone ? is the HR just a consequence of pushing yourself ? if I keep the HR above a certain level will I get quicker ?
Cycle 03: Day 3
PROGRAM SCHEDULE: 5 X 2000m R90s (7.50 / 3.55km) T
Hi there The 'Ed'
Last night I completed the 5 x 2000 ®90s.
I'm rating this session as a 5 in effort and I think I looked at pace once on the watch and also I think the pace times are better for it.
I felt weak but optimistic.
I felt totally battered at the end and I had lactic build up after the first interval of 2000. I ran home tired but still able and no pains etc...
Heart Rate bombed out here and there annoyingly.
By the way are these attachments actually helpful ? if not then do you have a preference of how data is presented ?
Should have asked that ages ago but there you go.
Alright speak soon and have a nice weekend.
Thanks for the feedback. We have already established that the most important days are from Day 3 to Day 8
once the body has absorbed that training, other aspects of pace and development become more important
the 2k session is a 'speed endurance' session, the intent is for you to be able to maintain the necessary speed in a race
the 1k session is 5k pace development and allows for your fastest 1k at the start and end of a 10k event
the aerobic runs long-term assist greatly in recovery which allows the runner to take on a higher workload.
paced runs are aimed at developing at a higher aerobic level, and truly only kick in once the athlete has developed on a few cycles
there is very much more to the programs that takes place as the athlete develops, and we try to recommend adapting to day 3 to day 8 fully before focusing on other aspects
I am hoping this makes sense, you have achieved the sub 19 5k time, that time would be an aim for a future 5k paced run, so that your 10k time is on a level par
please ask more questions
ps. thanks for the donation.
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