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sub 35min after marathon training - derele - 10-11-2010

The hill-race is not too important. Therefore the current plan A is (like outlined in my last post):
Hard weekend with 5x2000 on Friday and long+hill-rep run on Sunday. Then allow enough recovery (easy running) till Wednesday to do a hard 6x1000.

The hill-race will then be at the place of the 5k paced.


sub 35min after marathon training - TheEd - 11-11-2010

ideally it should be 5 x 2k today, Thursday

then Friday Rest over the weekend you can slot the rolling hills session in on Saturday or Sunday

Monday east or even Rest and Tuesday 6 x 1000m

the days 3 to 8 are important to the cycles, the order and period of intensity are important relating to overload, compensation and super compensation

and if the Hill race is not that important then best to try keep the order, the hill training will not have much developing / training effect towards the hill race but could help psychologically which is a help

if however you prefer then change accordingly but do note you are yet to truly gain the benefits out of the program

Cheers and good luck


sub 35min after marathon training - derele - 11-11-2010

Hi TheEd,

thanks for all the advice! My quads still feel too sour for the 5x2000 today. It is just this kind of sourness/tension that lets me know that the training works, not the "injury luring" sourness. I did no runs slower than 5min/km this week and I feel it adds up and my quads need some time.
Here is an overview:
Mon pm 18k @ 4:59
Tue am 6k @ 4:49 pm 14k@4:42
Wed am 6k @4:58 pm 18k@4:25
Thu am 6k @4:52 now to come 6k@4:5x
Fr am 6k @4:5x pm 5x2k @ 3:35

I know that this is much more mileage then recommended in the program, but this was one of the things I really want: more mileage!

I understand your point about the supercompensation effect. The cycle is aimed towards the next race and in this regard the 5x2000 should be today no matter if the last race was on Sunday or Saturday.
However as there are still more then 4 weeks till the next proper 10k I consider proper rest after the last race more important then build up for the next race.


sub 35min after marathon training - TheEd - 11-11-2010

consider not doing the 2k session as well as to avoid the hill session as both could be taxing on the quadriceps

recovery between sessions is extremely important

with the program .. if you do the 2k - long run and 6x1k sessions you on your way to achieving the bulk of the program, once you adapt to the program then the recovery runs can be concentrated on

you must give yourself a chance to achieve the true benefits of the program


sub 35min after marathon training - derele - 12-11-2010


I will try the 2k today, but stay alert to problems... The quads just feel worked out, I will start at a 3:40 pace and see how it goes.
The hill-session will be just gently rolling hills, no hard reps (will take the tram to the hills).

If the 5x2k will be bad today I know what I did wrong this week: The Monday session (although slow) had to be shorter. So if the 2ks fail I know what to change in future.


P.S I really like the 2nd and 3rd week of the program. I think I really felt how the periodisation from longer to shorter intervals towards the race helps leg-speed and lets you enter the race well rested.

sub 35min after marathon training - derele - 13-11-2010


5x2k were okay:

| Avg Pace | Avg HR | Max HR |
| 03:40 | 159 | 164 |
After R90 111
| 03:41 | 162 | 168 |
After R90 113
| 03:38 | 163 | 170 |
After R90 116
| 03:40 | 166 | 173 |
After R90 127
| 03:38 | 164 | 174 |
After R90 114

Short Rest was no Problem at all. HR and the felt stress on cardo-system was very low. I just was not able to speed up. Quads were not sour or tight but just feeling somehow empty: Felt good, wanted to go faster, legs didn't follow.

I should and will do lower mileage during the first days after next race to be fresher on next 5x2.


sub 35min after marathon training - TheEd - 14-11-2010

congrats derele .. do the development in stages without looking too much for results and the results will follow

once you do this session, 5 x 2k R90, at 3.25 per k = 6.50 per 2k you will be on your way to a sub 35 minute 10km time

the 6 x 1k session is indicative of your 5k speed

throw in the long run and then all you need do is race Wink



sub 35min after marathon training - derele - 14-11-2010

Thanks TheEd,

I am quite sure I will go sub 35 before getting 5x2k done in 3:25m/k :tonguepop:
well next session is in only two weeks, so I will see...

did the long run today a bit longer then recommended 27k@4:45m/k, last 3k around 4m/k... it was just such a nice day to be outside today in southern Germany.


sub 35min after marathon training - TheEd - 15-11-2010

you should cope with the long runs quite effectively after your marathon training

sounds like you having fun


sub 35min after marathon training - derele - 17-11-2010

Yes, the long run was fun.

I tried the 6x1k today and had to stop during rep5 because I felt my calf tightening up. It is not really too bad, I just stopped at the very first sign of it in anticipation of the race on Saturday.

But even before that I was not at all happy with my performance. 3:29, 3:27, 3:30, 3:31. HR was hardly getting up to 171.
I did this session during marathon training with better times but higher HR.

I will stay patient...