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Sub 20 and Sub 40 for 5k, 10k - Triathlon mainly

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Old 09-10-2014, 08:21 PM   #11
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Jorge .. you need to take things easy .. with time we will get you on track however you doing all the things that lead to overtraining (and rapidly)

take a few days off until the event

thereafter we can discuss the simplicity of running

uncomplicated and do the right things and do those things right


have a good event

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Old 13-10-2014, 12:28 PM   #12
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Location: Corroios - Portugal
Hi TheEd,

Thanks for the warning but to be honest I don't quite understand your statement: " however you doing all the things that lead to overtraining (and rapidly)". Anyhow...

Due to work/projects complications it was not possible to do anything since last workout on wednesday. Thursday and Friday were very stressful with very little sleep.

By midday of Thursday I already had made the decision not to take part on the Sunday's event.

Spent most part of Saturday sleeping.

Here on Sunday we had some nasty weather conditions (heavy rain, strong winds ) the tri-event was cancelled.

Today is still a bit crappy gray day with some rain.

Later on I plan to just run some easy 40 minutes or spin for 30 minutes. Then resume the "program" tomorrow.

On Thursday the 2k set. This time targeting 4/5 x 2k Rest 90 seconds @ 4.10 per k = 8.20

Will this be ok? To restart with the right foot?

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Old 16-10-2014, 06:26 AM   #13
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sorry for missing this .. don't hassle about the warning of overtraining, I am trying to make you aware of this so you take care

move onto the 2k session at the same pace

please provide feedback

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Old 18-01-2015, 11:43 PM   #14
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Location: Corroios - Portugal

Have been away for some time but hope to return back to the training sessions.

Since my last post I followed the plan (2nd cycle) up to almost the 6x1 fartlek workout.

Was not posting because lack of time, most of the runs took place after 11pm.

the 2nd cycle went like a charm, did the easy workouts very easy (also got a garmin watch which helped a lot), did the long run (23km over 2h and avh hr 136). After the 2nd 6x1km session I started to see a very stable HR, it was very easy to lock the hr between 135 and 142 beats. But more important was to see that pace was getting faster while the avg hr was < 140.
the day before the fartlek, I went into the woods for an easy run in a softer ground and ironically in one of the steps (left leg) I felt a stab on the outside of my left knee, which then turn into a numb feeling around it. At home I used ice to see if it help.
The next day the knee was still numb and going downstairs was getting more pain and lack of strength on the left leg. But walking on flat for several minutes seemed to calm down.
Stopped running, took some doses of voltaren pills and every other hour was applying voltaren gel to the knee. Pain went more or less way and over the next weekend I had a 10k race scheduled. So I went for it, during warmup felt no pain and was confident.
The race went smoothly up to the 6k. where a descent brought back the knee pain, to get things worse the last km was a long 6% way down. And that just messed up. It was a "bitter" race. I finished under 40m (and objective) but payed a high price. The next week was limping and with an ITB syndrome.
The race Nov 09:
1k: 3:48
2k: 3:41
3k: 3:54
4k: 4:00
5K: 4:02
6k: 3:46 down
7k: 4:04 up
8k: 4:34 up
9k: 4:19 up ending and start descending
10: 3:26 6/7% full down.
-- 39:18

Stopped running during the rest of Nov. Well I tried from time to time but after 12 minutes or about 2km+ the pain was returning. Even if I'm sat for long periods of time behind a computer the knee hurts or feels strange once I stand up, among other postures (cannot cross the right leg over the left for instance).

Then I start cycling (home trainer) and the light spinning did a wonderful job and knee start feeling better. Also started do some stretches and foam roller drills, then I moved to theraband strengthening exercises. But every time I tried to run the pain came back after a while.
I already was registered for the end of the year 10km race at Lisbon (27 Dec) so I went there even without very much training.
1k: 5:24
2k: 4:36
3k: 4:03
4k: 3:52
5K: 3:54
6k: 4:09
7k: 4:21
8k: 4:34
9k: 4:29
10: 3:43
-- 43:26

It was crowded and difficult to find space to run. I finished with a time of 43:26 and found out that running "faster" was feeling less "pain" in the knee.
On the 1st of Jan 2015 I did a long bike ride to start the year with a nice ride but after km 72 where I arrived to some steeper hills the knee went down again and I dragged myself home.
The last 2 weeks I've been resting and did some hip rotator strengh drills. Pain seemed to went away and today I went again for a run. And what a JOY. ran for 5k at a faster pace and no pain at all.

Lets see how the knee is tomorrow when I wake up and come downstairs for breakfast.

Hopefully I will start running again with more rest and maybe I could be back to "business again". I'm eager to get the same feeling I was getting during the 2nd cycle but then I also have to resume cycling again so it will be difficult to balance things out. But I really need to run, otherwise I feel nuts.

Tomorrow I'll rest and will try to run another 5k a bit slower next Tuesday.

Have fun..
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Old 19-01-2015, 07:09 PM   #15
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He Jorge, quite a comeback .. it looks like you were going through overuse problems which lead to various complaints

'The next day the knee was still numb and going downstairs was getting more pain and lack of strength on the left leg. But walking on flat for several minutes seemed to calm down. '

your quadricep strength seemed to be fatigued which would lead to 'sore' knees

cycle trainer should assist in QUAD strength

great to have you back

look forward to having you providing further feedback

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Old 26-01-2015, 03:07 PM   #16
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Location: Corroios - Portugal

Its nice to be back and able to run again!!

I think the strength drills are paying off! The acute pain in the outside of the left knee it gone. Sometimes when going downstairs and there is a leg twist there's a slight negative feeling in the affected area but during running at paces under 5' it has been ok.

Have been putting some pressure into my legs and the knee is holding quite good. Basically I've been running by feeling and it has been GREAT! although I have to back-off.

Tue, 7.0 km, 32:37 @4:39
Thu, 11.5 km, 52:37 @4:33 (this for me was a nice run with lots of positive feeling)
Sat, 20.0 km (18km off-road), 1:38:12 @4:54

This week I'll be running every other day (starting today) and the pace will be driven by HR (avg <=140) up to 1h sessions. So it will drop to 5:30 / 5:40.

If next Sunday the knee still is like today I'll slowly resume the program next week targeting the 5x2k @(4@10-15)/km. And probably try to push the last one bellow 4'/km. Lets see if I can achieve this.

I also need to introduce more rest. At this stage running 7 days in row is just too much. So i'll try to start slowly and see how everything develops.

One thing is sure, either it was because of 1 month of cycling or because the strengthening drills (mostly glutes) , it much easier to run around sub 5'.

Toward the end of the week I'll report again.

Have fun,
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Old 16-02-2015, 07:50 AM   #17
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Location: Corroios - Portugal
Back to the training program


Here we go with some ups and downs.....

This was where I left:

Tuesday, Jan 27
Swim: 12x 200m
Rum: easy 40minutes (6.9km @5.46)

Wednesday: Jan 28
Boring run: 10km @5:39
Did 2.5 x1k R3' with the triatlhon kids in the end:
.5 - @3:32
1k - @3:36
1k - @3:29

Saturday: Jan 31
Easy rum w/ minimal shoes
42', 8.1km @5:23

Time - to - run
Very busy week at work so I had to skip some sessions...

Thursday: Feb 5
Already had missed 2 session so I was a bit upset and needed to run.
62m running by feeling
13.8 km @4:30
Felt great afterward!!

Friday: Feb 6
5x 2.1k Set
1: 8'1 @3.55 - HR 181 - R90
2: 8'1 @3.55 - HR 188 - R90
3: 8'1 @3.53 - HR 190 - R90
4: 8'1 @3.59 - HR 191 - R90
5: 8'1 @3.57 - HR 190 - R90
So far it was the x2k session where I felt better. Usually I start do drag about midway of the third one. This time the pace was more even and add the feeling that there was "still something left in the tank".

Saturday: Feb 7

Sunday: Feb 8
Long run, 1h47 - 22.6km @4:45
Was feeling "strong" so I just went along by feeling.

Monday: Feb 9 (Had a shity day so...)

Tuesday: Feb 10
6x 1k R60 (I almost skip this one too! But went for it)
Overall was feeling tired, from long run and a hell of a very long day.
1: 3:41 - HR 170 - R60 (hr164)
2: 3:43 - HR 179 - R60 (hr172)
3: 3:51 - HR 181 - R60 (hr170)
4: 3:59 - HR 182 - R60 (hr167)
5: 3:52 - HR 183 - R60 (hr170)
6: 3:52 - HR 185 - R60
Started too fast, but something "was not there", the stride were not feeling right. On the fourth one was really an out of control run.
Only on the last two I start to focus in driving my knees forward and push the ground quicker.

Wednesday: Feb 11
Slow and easy run
5.9km @6:12

Thursday & friday Feb 13 - 13.
Had no time at all.
Just came back home to sleep and then work again

Saturday, Feb 14
Easy 1h10
11.9 @5:57

Sunday, Feb 15
Bike: 60km with my son and other tri-kids.
It was difficult to keep up with them. Result rubber legs
Took a 2h30 afternoon nap.

Run: 13.8 km with the 5k paced run in between.
1: 3:45 - HR 169
2: 3:48 - HR 182
3: 3:49 - HR 186
4: 3:55 - HR 188
5: 3:51 - HR 189
Total 19:07

This week i'll continue with plan and I hope not to skip anymore sessions.

Overall, I'm feeling stronger than back then in October/November. I think the strength drill I have been doing are helping me feel that way.
Last week (til saturday) I did no drills whatsoever and noticed something different on the strides. Yesterday before the 5k I did about 20minutes of drills (squats, single leg squats, clamshell w/rubber, ...) and every time I do this I think I run with much greater stability at hips level and its easier to push forward.
For most runs I finding that my sweet spot pace is between 4:45 - 5:05, it feel more natural and relaxed. Slower than that although the hr comes down, I also feel more strained legs, specially around the knees and thighs after the session.

I'm logging all these sessions on Strava with some other comments after the sessions.

Have a 10km race scheduled for next Sunday the 22th. The course will be almost flat, so i hope to go sub40. But lets see....

Have fun .... running.
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Old 16-02-2015, 12:09 PM   #18
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thanks for all the feedback and good to hear you feeling stronger, trying to prompt myself to get the article about running your best 10k finished

so here's to me getting it out this week before the race


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Old 23-02-2015, 07:33 AM   #19
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Location: Corroios - Portugal

here's this last week runs and race.

Feb, 16
1h01, 11.7km, @5:18/km, HR: 147

Feb 18
10x 400m
Did them very early and it was a mistake, body and mind are not ready for this kind of sessions at this time of the day.
Distance set to 4.10m on the GPS

1: 1:28 3:35 /km 162 bpm
--- R 60s 166 bpm
2: 1:26 3:30 /km 171 bpm
--- R 60s 170 bpm
3: 1:29 3:37 /km 173 bpm
--- R 60s 168 bpm
4: 1:29 3:37 /km 173 bpm
--- R 60s 168 bpm
5: 1:29 3:37 /km 175 bpm
--- R 60s 166 bpm
6: 1:29 3:37 /km 174 bpm
--- R 60s 173 bpm
7: 1:30 3:40 /km 176 bpm
--- R 60s 177 bpm
8: 1:30 3:40 /km 175 bpm
--- R 60s 169 bpm
9: 1:31 3:42 /km 174 bpm
--- R 60s 176 bpm
10: 1:31 3:42 /km 176 bpm
R 60s 183 bpm

Feb 20
Easy run
55 minutes | 10.3km @5:25/km - HR: 145

Feb 21
Morning Ride with the kids
1h35 - 35km

Late afternoon - Fartlek session
32 minutes | 7km @4:33/km - HR: 167
  #	Dist	Time	Pace	Avg HR
  1	2.1 km	10:00	4:43	151 bpm
  2	0.3 km	1:00	3:21	178 bpm
  3	0.2 km	1:00	4:53	176 bpm
  4	0.3 km	1:00	3:20	183 bpm
  5	0.2 km	1:00	5:13	176 bpm
  6	0.3 km	1:00	3:27	181 bpm
  7	0.2 km	1:00	5:18	179 bpm
  8	0.3 km	1:00	3:17	184 bpm
  9	0.2 km	1:00	5:32	178 bpm
 10	0.3 km	1:00	3:23	182 bpm
 11	0.1 km	1:00	7:10	175 bpm
 12	0.3 km	1:00	3:26	176 bpm
 13	0.1 km	1:00	6:48	173 bpm
 14	2.1 km	10:00	4:47	169 bpm
Feb 22 - Race Day
Distance: 10.2km
Time: 39:26
Pace: 3:52/km

Lap	Dist.	Pace	HR    
  1	1.0 km	3:39	173 bpm 
  2	1.0 km	3:40	183 bpm 
  3	1.0 km	3:45	188 bpm 
  4	1.0 km	4:02	190 bpm 
  5	1.0 km	4:00	191 bpm 
  6	1.0 km	3:54	190 bpm 
  7	1.0 km	4:00	191 bpm 
  8	1.0 km	3:58	191 bpm 
  9	1.0 km	3:51	193 bpm 
 10	1.0 km	3:53	193 bpm 
 11	0.2 km	3:38	195 bpm 
10km time: 38:35
About the race, it was a "flat course", I started in the middle of the crowd and early on (after the first 300m) had to push a bit to be on pace.
Km 4 and 5 were against the wind near a beach/coast segment, That was the most difficult k's. I faded a bit and was dropped from the group I was in. Then I tried to catch up but was not able too and faded again. Then I just ran alone for the last 2 km.
10km time was better than I was expecting but those 3 km @4' have a bitter feeling. Calves were a bit stiff at the end but the spinning afternoon ride did wonders!!
Overall I'm quite happy with the result, taking account that this was just one cycle after some time off. So i'm thrilled to keep working over the next 2 cycles to try bring the pace down to 3:50 or be able to maintain a more evenly pace for longer periods.

In the afternoon
Another soft ride with the kids
1h23 |28.0 km, basically spinning and 2 easy climbs

Later on the day, a 37min recovery run
36:57 | 6.0km @6:12/km

The next couple of days I'll do easy runs on pair with the last one.

Then next Thursday I'll "wake up" again for the 5x 2k.

What pace do you recommend for the next cycle? I'm thinking to try 3:55-57/km.

Best Regards and have fun!!!
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Old 23-02-2015, 07:35 AM   #20
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Forgot to say

The recovery run avg HR was: 133.
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