Running Information Forums

Hi,

I've been frequenting the site for some time now since I got back into running in March, what a fantastic resource with very
knowledgeable contribution from TheEd.

I'm a 33 year old male, don't smoke, drink occasionally. When I was younger (teens) I used to run quite a bit, for a local
running club, usually 400m and 800m but I stopped running when I was about 16.

In March I was offered the chance to run a half marathon in early April, I took the opportunity and ran a time of 2:00:18 with
2 weeks training which I was quite happy with but of course that's just the start of the addiction!

Around this time I had a problem with my left calf muscle and my shins which were mainly due to the shock of the initial training load and a
lack of extensive stretching, no issues at the moment.

After a couple of weeks rest I started on the sub-50 minute training plan with my sights set on a 10k on June 10th. I managed 48:34,
the course here was short, 9.87k according to my Garmin. Despite that I was really happy with the time considering the course
was mixed terrain, the main issue I found here was trusting my body that I could run at a sub 50 minute pace. (Stats below)

I've now started on the sub-45 training plan (is this a good idea?) and had my 4 * 2k session yesterday, my rest period was 90s.
Unfortunately my Garmin seemed to have some sort of problem as after the first interval it was reading 4:50 min/k on average
despite the fact that I felt like I was going as fast as on the first. I continued through 2 more intervals but bailed at the
end of the 3rd as I trusted the Garmin and thought I must have been feeling off. Annoyingly when I got home and checked the
stats I was running at the intended pace for all 3 intervals.
I would have found the last interval quite a challenge but feel I could have managed. (Stats below)

Today is a rest day with the longest run tomorrow.

In terms of my stats my resting heart rate is 52-56 and I weigh 80kg.


10k stats:
Distance---Avg Pace---Avg HR----Max HR
1----------05:05------168-------175
1----------05:10------179-------184
1----------05:10------185-------190
1----------04:43------186-------190
1----------04:53------183-------189
1----------05:07------184-------189
1----------04:55------183-------189
1----------04:52------182-------188
1----------04:58------184-------186
0.87-------04:15------190-------195


4*2k stats:
Distance---Avg Pace---Avg HR----Max HR
2----------04:27------172------183
0.13-------11:17------157------181
2----------04:25------184------190
0.12-------12:14------164------187
2----------04:25------185------190
0.13-------11:41------162------186


So I guess what I'm interested in understanding is:
- whether it's sensible for me to be tackling the sub 45 minute plan at this stage
- as regards the slow runs and keeping HR around 140, I find this REALLY difficult and actually feel awkward shuffling along
at a pace slow enough to maintain such a low HR, is there an alternative here (cycling?) or should I just suck it up and shuffle? :mmm:

I have another 10k planned for July 1st so am hopeful of some improvement!

Thanks in advance!

Hi gRUNt and welcome to the forums ..

just a quick question, please .. what are your times for your 400 and 800m as this is in relation to your discussing of 'shuffling' ..

OK .. nice to see you have taken up this running lark .. you have also shown you have a natural endurance base as well as being able to sustain a sub 5 minute per k pace over 10km

so .. moving up to the sub 45 minute program should not be too big a reach

what we should consider though is making sure that you recover between each of the quality sessions

And .. how are your aches and pains going .. anything still troubling you?

great to have you aboard

TheEd

Hi TheEd,

It's reassuring to get your view on things, thanks very much! :notworthy:

My times for 400m and 800m from over 15 years ago... I think I was running 56s for 400m and 2:10 for 800m.
Very interested to hear your thoughts on my inability to run at a suitably slow pace for 140BPM.

No injury concerns at the moment thankfully, I'm stretching a lot more now and have bought a "wobble board" and foam roller which have helped too.
The outside of the left calf is occasionally a little achey but not in a worrying way, after a few minutes it goes away and it's rarely a niggle these days.

Not sure how important it is for your understanding of my training but I don't have a running track available to me or a clear loop for my interval sessions, there's a nice stretch of common land close to where I work and live and that's where I've been doing the bulk of my training with the odd session on the road.

Thanks very much!

OK .. feedback helpful .. your shuffle is directly related to your background of faster running .. 140 bpm would be too slow for your form currently

so .. we will need to rather not run when such a slow bpm is currently required .. this will assist in avoiding further biomechanical problems caused by the shuffle .. this is a surmise as I am not able to see you one on one

but better to be cautious than to err

are you able to cycle on those days or swim, so that you have an activity?

Cheers

TheEd
ps.. you can stick to your training 'area' ..

That's really interesting TheEd, so I basically conditioned my body to run faster when I was younger hence I feel very ungainly when trying to jog at a 140BPM pace?

Cycling is definitely an option, presumably outdoors is preferred over my exercise bike?

As regards HR, I've found this is low when cycling, (less muscles involved and leaning forward on the bars mean the heart has an easier job?) so is the targeted HR the same?

I can also get in 1 swim a week so that's no problem and will bring some nice variety.

Good to hear about the training area, that could have been a deal-breaker! :laugh:

Exciting times, thanks!

Hi gRUNt .. if you see this link

http://www.time-to-run.com/training/hear...ercise.htm

you will see the paragraph (bit scientific):

* Body Position on the Bike will Influence Heart Rate. Let’s say I am riding on an indoor bicycle trainer with my upper body parallel to the ground (Hands on the drops) at a heart rate of 145. Raising upright while continuing to cycle at the exact same workload will result in an increase in heart rate of about 5 beats per minute.

---------------------------------------

the most important thing is how you sit on the bike and that you learn to spin correctly, during these sessions it is based on time and simply getting the activity in .. 'longterm' the consistency of training will benefit you

so swim when you want to as well

now .. Day 3 will be this Thursday, but instead of doing the 2k session again you can do a steady 20 to 30 minutes .. then follow the program from Day 4 onwards ..

enjoy

TheEd
ps.. I also surmise you reasonably tall?

Sounds good, I'll work with the 140 target on the bike then!

Great, so Thursday, having had 3 days rest I'll go for a 20-30 minute steady run.
Any HR or pace recommendations or shall I just get a run in at what feels like a sensible pace and report back? Sorry for all the questions!

Reasonably tall, 180cm, correct assumption!

Looking forward to it!

a comeback regarding the 'spinning' on the bike

it is low gear .. high revolution .. pulse around 125 to 135

you can go for a run tomorrow .. 30 minutes as you feel

TheEd

Fantastic, that's what I've been working to previously.

Looking forward to a run tomorrow!

Thanks!

Hi TheEd,

So, went for a run before work this morning, glorious sunshine but still quite cool, absolute bliss!

I covered 5.13k in the 30 minutes allocated, (perhaps went a little too slow) splits below with Max HR to follow when I get home tonight. Is there anything else that might be useful? Would it be better to post the link to my activity on Garmin Connect?

Distance---Avg Pace---Avg HR----Max HR
1----------05:54------149-------***
1----------05:52------152-------***
1----------05:44------153-------***
1----------05:55------152-------***
1----------05:51------155-------***
.13--------05:38------153-------***

I can see the general development of my fitness in the numbers (I love my Garmin!), I'd run some easy runs before at an average pace of over 6 min/k and my HR was higher than the above.

Shins feel a little tender but I'm putting that down to the 2k session on Sunday, with some ice, stretching and cycling they'll come round.

On the shins issue there is a little more background that may help, when I had my baptism of fire with running again in March I was using a pair of Adidas running shoes I'd bought not too long before, note no shin issues at this stage.

I then switched to a pair of New Balance around the time of the half marathon, I noticed the heel seemed quite high when compared to the Adidas shoes but thought nothing of it. Subsequently developed a niggle with my shins, I did some things as explained before to ease them and stretch them but I also switched back to the Adidas shoes for the 10k and had no issue during that race.

This tells me the New Balance shoes don't suit my gait and were perhaps causing me to land too much on the heel therefore smacking the front of my foot on touchdown thereby causing the issue, does that seem plausible?

So, I'm not too worried about the shins at the moment, I think the introduction of cycling into my plan will give me time to repair any damage there. Am I being overly optimistic?

Thanks!