Running Information Forums

Dear TheEd, and other running enthusiasts.

Compliments for a very informative running website!

I have been reading and picking up some crucial input allready for my training towards a 10km race taking place April 27th (and then later for 21 km June 8th).
I`ve ran the same 10km race last year and the year before (PB = 43.18, from the race in 2012, unofficial PB on tread mill is 42.30 from medio March this year).
I have earlier defined the goal "sub 40 before (age) 40". But recently I decided to go all in this spring and make it sub 40 before 33. (I`ll reach that age April 30st).

I have a background as football player, and I think I could say I`ve ran a lot in my youth, and kept it on a decent level througout my 20`s. Still I would consider myself a Beginner in the universe of more structured running. I also have minimal experience with long runs (here defined as 15 k +). On the other side, as a good Norwegan, I have quite some experience with cross country "long runs", and I`ve been doing a lot of that this winter.

Background of training 2012/13: Had a bad autumn with lots of work and less time to spend on training. However, since approximately november 12, I`ve been able to keep the training on 3-4 times a week level (running intervals 2-3 of the days, combined with strenght 1-2 days).
Since february I`ve been stepping it up quite substantially, and started to look at some training programs in order to reach the magic sub 40 limit.

I have chosen this site as a starting point, and my plan is to follow the sub 40 cycle once before the race (unfortunately, I didn`t discover it in time to make it twice, but I have been able top put in approximately the same amount of sessions over the last 3 weeks, with 1 rest day a week).

I haven`t been able to to a 4k time trial with HR data, because at the moment still don`t have the right equipement, but I will probably purchase a Garmin Forerunner 210 today or tomorrow. Anyway; I have been able to measure my capasity in other ways.
10k in 42 min 30 s on March 12th
5 km in 20.00 on March 23rd
5 x 2 k in pace 7 min 50 on April 2nd.

I have geared up my training intensity quite a bit the last month, so I am aware of the potential for injury. Have felt some minor pain in my knees when running on concrete, but hopefullly it is only "weakness coming out", and my body getting used to the harder surface after a winter of tread mills and snow.

My questions now may be as follows:

Is it ok with my background to try to follow the sub 40 program for this race?
Is it imperative to do a 4k time trial? I have now "officially" started on the program (first day being yesterday...).
How easy are the easy runs meant to be? Does easy allways mean the same?
And how would you recommend to combine some strenght training into the cycle? My guess is it should be together with (in front or after) the easy runs, and keep the rest day as a true rest day?
I have also looked at some other programs who seems to focus more on shorter intervalls (like 8X200 meters). Are such short intervalls not relevant for developing a better 10 k capacity in your opinion?
That would be it for now.
At the moment I am eager to learn and adjust my training in order to take my running to a new level!

All the bests,
from a "beginner" - yet with a decent amount of experience

I mentioned that I`ve done "a lot" of cross country "long runs". Here, what I meant was cross country skiing

Hi NordicRunner and welcome to the forums

lots of nice info .. excellent .. I understood the skiing straight away (wife is Finnish) .. to be honest, I wish more of the Nordic members would consider doing cross country skiing during winter because the 'aerobic' benefits are great and a fantastic background for running .. well, you should know this because of Ingrid Kristiansen and Grete Waitz both had a cross country skiing background

if you were able to do the 5 x 2k session with 90 second Rest in 7 minutes 50 then you well on your way .. what did you do for the full session there

Your questions:
1. Is it ok with my background to try to follow the sub 40 program for this race?
A. your reply to my 2k question will certainly determine this

2. Is it imperative to do a 4k time trial? I have now "officially" started on the program (first day being yesterday...).
A. for now we can let it go however the 4k time-trial is a very good marker for the future and we can assess exactly where you are and provide 'your' data accordingly

3. How easy are the easy runs meant to be? Does easy allways mean the same?
A. for now yes, the easier the better, as you develop we shall be able to provide pace or Heart rate levels accordingly

4. And how would you recommend to combine some strenght training into the cycle? My guess is it should be together with (in front or after) the easy runs, and keep the rest day as a true rest day?

A. to start with, on this cycle we wouldn't recommend doing any strength training however you can slot such training into the program after the race during the 2nd week of the 3 week cycle, we can chat more about this in the future

5. I have also looked at some other programs who seems to focus more on shorter intervalls (like 8X200 meters). Are such short intervalls not relevant for developing a better 10 k capacity in your opinion?

A. these programs were devised specifically to be able to race from 5k up to and including the half marathon and was therefore not necessary to go down to doing the 200m session .. our athletes in the past would do a 1500m session off the format however none of the online 'users' race track

Hopefully this answers things adequately, if needed do ask further questions

enjoy

TheEd

Thanks for a quick reply! I totally agree on the skiing. My goal for the next years will be to prioritize skiing during winter and running during spring/summer/autumn.
To your question:
I`m not sure if I understood what you meant by "the full session" in regards to my "test" 5x2k session, but this is how the session was, in more detail: I ran laps on an indoor track. Was not able to measure HR. Only time/distance. I warmed up for 15 mins, then performed the 5x2k, with approximately 90 sec in between (might have been slightly more than 90 sec between some of the 2ks, due to the fact that I had to move about 200 m between the finish spot and start spot). In the end, I cooled down for 5-10 minutes, feeling quite stiff in my calves (I must admit I "felt it" during this session). Maybe I missed out something to make it a "full session", according to the program?

Best regards,
Anders

I suppose the advice about staying off strength training during the 3 week cycle is not only for leg strength but also upper body /core? The thing is, I`m think that my preferance (in the long run, at least) is actually to try to keep a balanced physical training schedule, which combines both running/skiing with strength - but with the priority to running/skiing. Which means, I am not the type that will go 100 % for running/skiing (like a specialized athlete approach). Just wanted to mention it

but for now - in front of this race - I am willing to reduce the strength sessions to a minimum - I think

upper body conditioning fine but no leg work

as fr the full session .. what times did you run the 5 x 2k in

if you achieved 7 minutes 50 per 2k then a sub 40 minute 10k is definitely 'doable'

cheers

TheEd
ps.. your winter skiing is a sensible choice

Ok - as you say, Ed :great:

I`ll stay off the leg work until after the upcoming race.

About my performance on that 5x2k: I must admit there are some uncertainties, the main one being that the track I used was 546 m laps. So it was a bit challenging to measure exactly. But anyhow, I`m pretty sure I wasn`t that far off the scheduled pace. Tomorrow I`ll try to use a different track, leaving nothing uncertain. I`ll be sure to report the results.

if you were able to do the 2k session in sub 8 minutes, then you would be on your way to getting close to sub 40 minutes for 10k

cheers

TheEd

I'm pretty satisfied with todays tough 5x2k session!
Was able to deliver according to the program:
7:49
7:50
7:49
7:49
7:48
That was my lap times... Perhaps even 0,5-1 sec quicker, as I had to hit a button on the tread mill to read off the time when reaching 2k.

As you understand, I ran without a HR monitor today as well. I purchased a Garmin Forerunner 210 earlier today, but didn't have time to start using it tonight. Next session it will be with me!

I thought the session today was quite challenging. Difficult to say ig I might have pushed it to hard, but hopefully not. Would you say the achievment is just as good when ran on tread mill compared to on a track?

I still find it a bit "unbeliavavle" that I should be able to keep a speed just slightly slower than todays pace for 10 k, but I suppose I'm on my way. Tried to focus on breathing technique during todays session. Something I've never done before, and it really helped.

Looking forward to the rest day tomorrow:great:

consider adding a +1% elevation to the treadmill, this is considered to achieve the same 'conditions' of running outside (or near enough)

good consistent session

onwards

TheEd