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+--- Thread: Sub 40 within reach? (/Thread-Sub-40-within-reach)
Sub 40 within reach? - NordicRunner - 15-04-2013
Thanks for that advice, I`ll be sure to do that if I use the treadmill anymore in the program.
Saturday I went on with my long run, as follows (finally got my new Garmin up and ready to go):
Km Pace HR(av.)
1 5.16 158
2 5.33 160
3 5.15 148
4 5.23 148
5 5.32 157
6 5.09 155
7 5.26 158
8 5.06 162
9 5.06 156
10 5.13 155
11 5.13 159
12 5.15 154
13 5.25 155
14 4.39 156
15 4.41 158
16 4.44 164
17 4.42 164
18 5.05 160
In front of the run I was unsure about what pace and HR to go for, as I`m quite new to the HR measuring universe, but think I managed to stay on a reasonable level? I repeatedly did the "talk test" (hopefully when nobody could hear me), trying to adhere to that principle of threshold.
However, I am a bit puzzled about what method / scheme to use when continuing my HR measuring. I`ve bought a book by Sally Edvards, Carl Foster and Roy M. Wallack, and see that they recommend organizing the training around the concept of "threshold" HR (in stead of max HR). Their "easy" version of defining ones threshold is the talk test that I mentioned above. For me it is a bit confusing what excactly the talk test means by "being able to talk easily". I feel uncertain about my own understanding of this test... (as I asked you in relation to the training plan as well: How easy is easy? What does it mean to talk "easily"... and so on).
That said, I think I was able to locate my threshold somewhere between 160-170. Above 175 I would definately not feel it very pleasant to continue talking, but I was able to talk sometimes also around 170. So after the run I was uncertain if I should have layed on a higher average HR (like 165).
Any comment/ advice on this topic would be of great use for me as I stumble into the world of HR measuring.
Today I have the "10 K easy - relaxed" scheduled. Do you think I should run this in approximately the same pace/HR as the long run?
:mmm:
Thanks in advance!
Sub 40 within reach? - TheEd - 15-04-2013
'straight off the wood' .. the easy run HR looks too high
EASY and the talk test are related, however a person could still talk and try to maintain the pace at the same time, not slowing the tempo down
as mentioned on our Beginner 5k program
Talk Test
The TALK TEST is the best way to monitor yourself while jogging/running. If you are not able to talk to someone while running then you are exercising too quickly. Slow down to a talk.
I can tell you that once you go through the training cycles and we get more feedback from you, then we will know for certain
most of the users of the programs easy run is around 130 bpm
another 'rule of thumb' we use is that you take your 10k time and from you pace, 1km average pace, so if 4 minutes per k, we then add 1 minute to this to make it 5 minutes per k, and this is your pace for anything up to 1hr running (or 15km) , thereafter for 90 minutes and above you add another 30 seconds per km, this will give you (from our example) a pace of 5.30 per k for the LONG RUNS
hope this helps and doesn't confuse
TheEd
Sub 40 within reach? - NordicRunner - 15-04-2013
Allright, thanks. I'll try to slow down the easy runs then. Still, according to your rule of thumb, my average pace was not to high - if 40 min actually is my 10 k time. I guess maybe this last "if", combined with your more than qualified guess about my HR being to high, might give me reasons to doubt that sub 40 is actually within reach this time. Perhaps I should adjust my goal to sub 42. I will nevertheless follow the program through. Thanks for all help so far!
Sub 40 within reach? - TheEd - 15-04-2013
you won't be too wrong to go through the first 5k in around 20.30 to 21.00
and if you feel good you can finish strong and then build on that
to have a negative race could take a little longer to recover from
TheEd
Sub 40 within reach? - NordicRunner - 16-04-2013
That is a good advice, I think I will try to stick to it. Will get somemore answers Saturday on the 5k speed test. I suppose I should aim around 20 min for that.
Today I had the 6x1k, and it was tough! Had planned to do it outdoors on a track, but quite heavy rains made me go for the treadmill again. This time I followed your advice and used 1% elevation for the whole session. Unfortunately my Garmin doesn`t find the satelites indoors, so I have no good data to post. But I managed to go through, actually I hadn`t done my home work well enough, so ended up running at a faster pace than scheduled:
km/h min/km
16.5 approx 3.39
16.5 approx 3.39
16.5 approx 3.39
16.5 approx 3.39
16.4 approx 3.41
16.5 approx 3.39
(approximate values given because I think I must add 1-2 sec pr lap due to a slightly lower starting pace the first 5 secs of each lap)
I would have done it slower if I only had done the math up front. Felt it was a bit to fast, and HR was pending between 180 and 190 (sounds to high, doesn`t it?). Hopefully this doesn`t ruin anything, though. Feel allright now, two hours after finishing the session.
Still a bit puzzled bout the treadmill pace to outdoors pace ratio. Feel I would have had a harder time hitting that speed off the treadmill. Am I right? Anyway, I might not be that far away the sub 40 goal after all, given todays session?
Best regards
Anders/Nordic:yes:
Sub 40 within reach? - TheEd - 17-04-2013
The treadmill is more difficult to get used to and once you get used to it, getting used to outdoor running again is also more difficult
however the good thing is you are able to do 'quality sessions' and this is good for your developmentthe major secret to the program is the quality from Day 3 to and including Day 8
thereafter it is learning to balance the 'lighter' training from there
your pace on the treadmill is looking quite decent
be patient as it looks like you making good progress
grand
TheEd
Sub 40 within reach? - NordicRunner - 17-04-2013
Thanks again for your quick replies.
Today I feel great actually. Went for the easy 30 min run in the morning before work, and it was a really good start of the day, sun shining and legs feeling surprisingly ok. Now I feel really full of energy in legs and want to go out running, so I guess that`s a sign that the program works for me.
Will post data later on, when I get home.
I`m thinking a bit about the 5k session. Do you think I should do that on the first half of the actual race route, if possible? It might be a bit crowdy, as it`s saturday and the route starts in the city center, but think it should be possible to do it. This part of the route is the most curvy, but it`s not that curvy after all: 62-151 feet, then slowly up to 190 feet, down to 79, up to 157...
Alternatively I might do it on an outdoor track.
:mrburns:
Sub 40 within reach? - NordicRunner - 21-04-2013
Ok, time to report some new data from my latest sessions.
Wednesday: 30 min easy, 6.34 km, 5:05 min/k, av. HR 154.
Thursday: 60 min easy: 11.8 km, 5:10 min/k, av. HR 145.
Friday: Rest Day
Saturday: 5 km "race pace". 19:01, 3:48 min/k, av. HR 185, (max HR 192)
5k broken down:
Km time avHR maxHR
1 3:36 176 186
2 3:49 185 188
3 3:51 187 190
4 3:53 189 191
5 3:54 190 192
Was quite happy with this 5 km run. I ran it on a track, so managed to hit a surprisingly good pace from the beginning. Guess I was eager not to fall behind schedule from start, as I was unsure what pace I actually would be able to achieve. I might have been running a bit too fast, as I felt after 5k that I would have had trouble keeping that pace over another 5 k, still I feel this result was good news with regards to next weekends race.
Probably I`ll have to add some time as the race is on concrete, with some ups and downs, bur I think I will stick to the sub 40 goal now. What dp you make of this:mmm:, TheEd?
Sub 40 within reach? - TheEd - 21-04-2013
sorry I didn't get to your reply before the 5k run, however it all looks to have worked out ...
for the 10km race .. don't consider going out any quicker than 19:45 for the first 5k
you show that you have the 5k speed however for the 10k you have to stay as relaxed as possible till you get to the 7k mark
and relaxed is meaning being able to run sub 4 minutes per k without it causing too much fatigue
if you able to do this then a good 10k result should be achievable
TheEd
Sub 40 within reach? - NordicRunner - 24-04-2013
So, last preparation for Race Day later this week (saturday).
I feel in good shape, and will go for it!
However, I have some uncertainties regarding
- shoes
- organisation of two last sessions
Shoes first: I recently bought a nice pair of "racing shoes": Mizuno Wave Ronin 5
I have tried them out in three different sessions. First, I used them for 3x1 k (changed shoes during 6x1k session) on treadmill. Then I used them for 5k run on track, and yesterday I used them for the 10 x 400 m, on an indoor track. I have hitherto zero distance on the actual race surface (concrete) with these shoes. How important / potentially problematic is this? (to run with the shoes on the actual race surface). Of course, I have ran some of the sessions on concrete, but then used my Asics Gel Nimbus 14.
My weight is around 80kg, +/- 1kg, so I`m a bit heavy for my height (180) (not the typical long distance body type). Just thought it could be mentioned.
So I wonder whether I should use them on todays and / or tomorrows session(s), and whether these sessions should be on concrete.
For the last session, fartlek, I also wonder if I understand it right. After 30 min easy you run 6 x 1 min race pace, with 1 min "easy" in between each interval?
Thanks again for all guidance:tourist: