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+--- Thread: Parkrun Improve (/Thread-Parkrun-Improve)
RE: Parkrun Improve - TheEd - 20-11-2025
Hi Neil .. it is going to take a little while before I get a better understanding of your running regarding pace and pulse
from yesterday's run I would consider you moved into threshold the last 2km, was this intentional?
so far, and I stand to correction .. you show that you are not able to maintain a quicker pace but what must be also understood is that your local ParkRun probably tests your endurance far more, so you are unable to maintain the pace because of the accumulation of the fatigue due to the hilly nature of the PR course
in yesterday's run, you able to drop the pace below sub 5 without the bpm going that high. Please note, we would like you to develop whereby you able to sustain at least 10 to 15 minutes at 160 to 165 bpm during the parkrun, this (imo) will have you running closer towards 23 minutes
as you would know, we can't jump you to that level too quickly but we can work (wisely) to achieve this. You being able to dig in, can never be in doubt, however we need for the training to assist you, therefore I would like to change things whereby we focus on getting a training rhythm where the aim is to introduce 1 long run every 2 weeks, the aim here is to build to 1hr to start with and then to get it towards 15km .. ideally you would run with slower runners than you so that you are able to chat. We would introduce some faster running (reps / intervals), which I shall look to mix up
ParkRuns remain but we vary what you do on the day. (more to follow)
Are you able to tell me what day is best for a longer run every 2 weeks, preferably on a weekend? We will look to have either Tuesday and Wednesday as a speed play day, if that is good with you
I shall wait for your feedback
TheEd
RE: Parkrun Improve - NeilJ - 20-11-2025
Thanks Gavin, you have got my situation absolutely spot on but to provide a little more info and reason (quite often illogical)
. I provide you with this and that is that, pre covid and post my little knee op, sub 21:00 Park runs on this same course were a constant. I recognise at the time some 5 years ago I was on an annual regular marathon program, running two marathons and Oceans every year. Naturally this training included far higher mileage, 5 or 6 days a week and a far more complex running regime methodology, including all the elements required to run a fairly decent marathon around the three hour mark. In my naivety I believed that with a bit of training I should be able to at least get back to around the 23:00 parkrun minute mark, even if my marathon days were a thing of the past. Not wanting to put my knee at any further risk, I decided to run three days a week and see where I could get to in terms of a time improvement. I have run long enough to recognize that without a proper more structured program, including at least a bit of anaerobic LSD, speed and possibly some interval running I would never be able to really improve my times. I also know instictively that I am currently probably running too hard, too often given the training that I have been doing, adopting a rather imature no pain no gain attitude to my running.
I am now thanks to our recent contact and your invite in your hands and am happy to comply with the suggestions that you put forward. I am more than happy to work towards a weekly 1 hour Sunday slow run, working towards 15K together with an interval session.
Apologies for the lengthy reply but do think its necessary for you to fully appreciate where I have been and where I am at, both with my running and then in my head (logical and illogical).
Looking forward to some more structured running into the future.
Thank you kindly.
RE: Parkrun Improve - TheEd - 21-11-2025
HI Neil .. incredibly, it is the aerobic capacity runs (related to VO2 max) which are probably the most important .. zone 3
with focus on that zone, you should improve.
in tomorrow's ParkRun, look to run the 1st 3km keeping the pulse in zone 3 and then start picking up the pace in stages over the last 2km. It will be most interesting to see the feedback from this
over to you
RE: Parkrun Improve - NeilJ - 21-11-2025
Thank you, I will do and provide the deets in the morning.
RE: Parkrun Improve - NeilJ - 24-11-2025
Hi Gavin, I attempted to run my Saturday Parkrun according to your recommendation, Zone 3 for 1st 3KM then pick it up over the final 2K. Please do see my Strava results. I must say that I did struggle to keep the 1st 3 kays within Zone 3 and actually felt a bit sluggish running at that pace. I was hoping to kick through the last 2Km's which were a bit tougher than anticipated especially after the slow start. Very interesting both the data and the way I felt throughout the run.
RE: Parkrun Improve - TheEd - 24-11-2025
Hi Neil, yes .. interesting run and especially regarding the sluggishness .. I copied down the pulse at the various 1km splits
1. 5.35 - 137 ... 2. 6:07 - 134 ... 3. 6:05 - 138 ... 4. 5:13 - 152 ... 5. 5:09 - 158
early speed keeping it in the zone then having to slow so as not to go out of zone 3 and then picking up the pace .. pulse goes up but not going sub 5 on the last 1km ..
regarding the sluggishness .. what type of warm up routine do you have before the parkrun?
ideally I would like for you to put in an 8k to 10k run keeping the run in the zone 3 heart zone / bpm ( not going into threshold)
we can introduce some 1ks x 3 @ below 5 minutes quite shortly but not just yet
I would like to see whether your body complains about the slower running
you decide which day you want to run the zone 3 run mentioned above
incredibly you are able to run a 25 minute 5k (at your parkrun) probably due to your running experience
the zone 3 runs will improve things for you .. so the plan is to improve zone 3 running (I call this the glue, it feels wasteful but it is what will keep everything together with time) .. we will introduce the 3 x 1km with the 1st session looking to roll around 4:50 to 4:55 .. if you measure out a 1km route with your watch it is fine (you simply keep the same route) .. if things progress nicely you should edge towards 4:30 after around 4 sessions .. we will only increase the amount of 1k's once things align with pace and pulse
we keep ParkRun ... what days are you able to run .. we looking at 1 day on and one day off (no running)
on we go TheEd
RE: Parkrun Improve - NeilJ - 25-11-2025
Thanks Gavin for the extremely thorough reply as we unravel my issue regarding my slowing over the past few years, things are already becoming clearer to me. In particular the, "sluggishness" which certainly could benefit from a better warm up, than my slow jog to the start. I will certainly attempt a better more concentrated warmup next week.
I have known instinctively that I do require a slightly longer slow run and I will get that in, in the morning (8-10k in zone 3) as I did do a little slow maintenance 5K yesterday, it is on Strava. I will post results tomorrow after the longer slow run. I absolutely agree with the glue idea and I think that it has been the grand missing from what went before, up until my current situation. The reason for not including anything longer previously, was that there was a caution of my knee but I certainly think that it is all good, as I havent had any issues since the recovery from the op. Pre covid and the knee issue, when not marathon training I was running a half marathon practically every second weekend, you know how packed with them the race calendar in the Cape is. Those essentially became my glue.
I have a great straight flat 1K stretch of dirt farm road just outside our estate which I have used in the past which we can incorporate when you feel that I might be ready to run the speedier stuff.
With regard to the weekly program for now starting with Saturday Park run, I can run my longer one from next week on the Monday, your speed or interval session on the Wednesday, which leaves Thursday and Friday free for now for recovery, to the restart of the week. I am happy to run one of those days as we progress and I hopefully get a little stronger if need be. I know that it is then consecutive day running to put in 4 days training a week but if you think I need it later I am happy to consider it. Alternatively I can turn it into a gym day for a bit of cross/strength training, not my favorite thing in the world, but Ill follow your lead on that.
Appreciate the inputs, chat tomorrow.
RE: Parkrun Improve - TheEd - 25-11-2025
Hi Neil .. regarding the knee .. would you be able to do light strengthening exercises .. low weight and low rep in the form of leg extensions and leg curls (would exercise caution and work through this slowly)
your running plans look good .. consider the strengthening exercises as car maintenance and we will balance it out .. no leg squats at all .. (I am not a fan of that exercise when coming to the knees)
slowly slowly we will piece it all together
TheEd
RE: Parkrun Improve - NeilJ - 25-11-2025
Yes certainly can do a bit of leg strengthening, I do have a mini program from a biokineticist I saw some time ago.
Ill get on it from Thursday.
Thanks Neil.
RE: Parkrun Improve - NeilJ - 26-11-2025
Good morning Gavin, very interesting run this AM. Went out early as its starting to get warmer in CT, especially in our neck of the woods.
Your training called for a longer slow run around the 1 hour mark staying in Z3, I ran my old 10K from my place up and down Polkedraai. The first 3K are essentially flat and then a gradual but even 2k rise upto the turn and then back down that 2k and flat home again. This was my goto run for many years and it felt like returning to very familiar place. Herewith the numbers: (1K - 6'15 128B), (2k - 5'39 134B), (3k - 6'37 137B), (4k - 7'02 139B), (5k - 7'36 143B), (6k - 6'27 142B), (7k - 6'07 137B), (8k 6'08 141B), (9k - 7'07 144B), (10k - 7'02 145B). Overall time 10K - 1:07'34 Ave HR 135B. Please do see Strava for more indepth info.
Going out to the 3K mark felt like a warmup then I had to hold back as I hit the beginning of the incline, even though my pace dropped through the floor to around 7/K with my heartrate increase to 143B/m it felt quite slow. I really had to focus to hold back on the pace to keep it easy. The 2K downhill between 5-7K were fairly pleasant but I did have to keep the brakes on to hold the dicipline.
The final 2k were a bit loborious and I just wanted to get the run done, interestingly my pace was back down and my heartrate up on this flat section. My synopsis was that as this is the furtherest I have run in a couple of years, I was entering a new area of fatigue. The interesting bit is that I actually felt mentally strong and physically okay, just forcing myself from going quicker to just complete the 10K. Traditionally LSD pace dicipline has never been my strong suite and quite probably why my marathon times never truly reflected the capability according to my shorter race results, boredom would set in and I would often go harder than I was supposed to on those long training runs. This felt like a mini reflection of those very long Sunday mornings.
An hour after the run I did notice that my legs felt a little fatigue but otherwise all good.
I would be interested to get your take on this run as I think it is the most telling bit of info that we could have with regard to the construction of future training.
Thank you kindly Neil.