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Sub 40min training advice please - Determinator - 11-06-2009

Hello Ed I would really value your help for me to run a sub 40minute 10k by SUNDAY 27TH SEPTEMBER 2009. I am aged 46 and have been running, biking and doing gym based cross competitions for some years. I have always been fairly fit for my age but cannot take it to a higher level. My pb was 40mins 40secs two years ago on a flat course. On 29th March 2009 I ran 42mins 18secs (av' 4mins 14secs per km) on a flat course. On 17th May 2009 I ran 42mins 13secs (av' 4mins 13secs per km) on an underlating course with a strong wind.

This week I have done the following:

Sunday 7th June Rest as just got back from 2 weeks holiday.

Monday 8th June 4km time trial on the road with and overall distance of approx' 10km to include warm up/down
- 1km 3mins 50secs 144av hr and 158 max hr
- 2km 3mins 54secs 159av hr and 161 max hr
- 3km 3mins 59secs 161av hr and 161 max hr
- 4km 4mins 25secs 161av hr and ? max hr

Tuesday 9th June Rest

Wednesday 10th June 4x2km with 90secs rest with 1imile warm up/down
- 2km 7mins 59secs 149av hr and 160 max hr
- 4km 8mins 02secs 154av hr and 163 max hr
- 6km 8mins 15secs 156av hr and 167 max hr
- 8km 8mins 34secs 159av hr and 162 max hr

Thursday 10th June 30 mins easy to moderate run 149 av hr

I can train any day of the week but would prefer to keep Fridays as a rest day and can only train on a treadmill on a Monday. As I train with a friend can I suggest that if I train on a Monday it is for short intervals, otherwise we will get too much rest.
My questions are:

- where do I start with my training (i.e day one of the sub 40 plan next Tuesday?)
- at what hr/pace should I run the 'easy runs', 'time on feet' runs and 'easy distance'?
- at what pace per 1km and/or hr should I run my hard sessions?
- if I run on the treadmill at what incline do you suggest?
- can I do some press ups and/or whole body weight training with this training? If so when and what? (I just feel the need to keep fairly strong but athletic).
Many thanks

Sub 40min training advice please - TheEd - 12-06-2009

Hi Determinator and welcome

this makes great reading and there is no reason why we cannot work to achieve a sub 40 minute 10km

what I recommend is that you start on the sub 40 minute 10km format and that we change the paces of the quality sessions - the 2000's and 1000's so that it suits you more

there is no need to rush this pace as we need you to adapt to the cycles before worrying about the sub 40 minute pace

this will come naturally

judging from your 4k time-trial you already do have the sub 4 minute pace requirement, so the speed is there, what we need to convert it to is speed endurance and that is exactly what the 2000's will achieve

ideally I would not like to change the 18 day cycle too much, so we have to decide on what day you shall start the cycle? Normally Day1 is a Tuesday to slot in race days on a Saturday.

and yes, you can continue with your press ups on any day however avoid doing leg exercises a day before and after the quality sessions

judging from your pulses given so far, your easy runs could be around 120 to 130 bpm, however we shall be able to determine this more after a little more data

treadmill incline, I do believe was around 1 to 2% (need to refresh memory here)

I shall await further input from you



Sub 40min training advice please - Determinator - 12-06-2009

Ed You don't realise how good you have made me feel! Its now up to me to put the hard work in. The earliest race that I hope to enter is a 10 miler on the flat on Saturday 25th July. I was thinking about entering a 10k on Sunday 5th July but it is underlating and I would rather concentrate on your training.
With that in mind day one looks good for Tuesday 16th June and Fridays tie in with my requested rest day for the first cycle. On the Mondays of the first cycle i.e day 7 and 14 I will do these easy runs on my treadmill and ask my friend to go on the road on his own. Alternatively could I row, cycle, do step ups and run as long as I keep my heart rate in the low range that we decide in the future?
One last question about what you said about doing leg weights or leg bodyweight exercises. Which day numbers do you term 'quality sessions' on the existing programme as written?

I will do a cross training session tomorrow to include weights and an easy run up to one hour on Sunday with Monday 15th as rest.

I cannot wait to get going and look forward to your reply before doing so.
Thanks once again.

Sub 40min training advice please - TheEd - 13-06-2009

Hi D .. I highly recommend that for the first 10 days of the training that you do not try to do other activities so that your body can adapt to the training

first get through a cycle of 2000's and 1000's before considering anything on top of this, the more you develop on this training the more your other aspects of training will improve

be patient to start with and let's work on your first 2000m session for next week

now a question for you, what pace do you think your first 2000m session should be, taking into consideration that this will be 5 x 2000m



Sub 40min training advice please - Determinator - 14-06-2009

I will always follow your advice Ed and take on board what you said about not doing any other training in days 1-10. Following your programme tips I work out that my 5x2km pace should be 4.12 per km. Please let me know if I am wrong.

Sub 40min training advice please - TheEd - 14-06-2009

Grand D

4.10 would be sharp .. and 4.12 is correct

after the first cycle we can look at changing things

the first 10 days are important to see how your body adapts to the system

Good luck


Sub 40min training advice please - Determinator - 20-06-2009

Hi Ed Just wanted to give you feedback after my first five days training and see what you think I should run my 1k's in next Tuesday day 8. My guess is aim for 4mins per k. Day 5 was today.
Day 1 67mins 26sec, 13.46km, 5mins 1secs per km, HR 133av, 141max
Day 2 30mins 7sec, 5.99km, 5mins 2secs per km, HR 128av, 135max
Day 3 8mins 16secs Monitor incorrect for heartrates
1min 29sec rest 121av HR
8mins 13secs 152av 163max HR
1min 26sec rest 130av HR
8mins 11secs 158av 167max HR
1min 30sec rest 138av HR
8mins 27secs 161av 166max HR
1min 32secs 140av HR
8mins 30secs 161av 163max
Av 8mins 19secs per 2km and 4mins 10secs per 1km. VERY WINDY.
Day 4 Rest
Day 5 1 hour 29mins 16secs, 17.71km, 5mins 2secs per km, HR 136av, 140max

I will not be able to do day 6 but will start again on day 7 Monday 22nd June.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Sub 40min training advice please - TheEd - 20-06-2009

good first 2000m session

for the 1000's look at 4.05 per k

will be interesting to see whether you find this session easy

you have the pace D but definitely lacking on the speed endurance side, this will definitely improve with a few sessions

one of the good aspects of age is that once you achieve a certain pace and with the correct training you are able to maintain that pace for longer during a race

so here's to the future



Sub 40min training advice please - Determinator - 21-06-2009

Cheers for the feedback Ed. You do talk a lot of sense. I'll let you know how the 1k's go and will try to aim for a consistent pace for each one. Easier said than done!
All the best.

Sub 40min training advice please - Determinator - 28-06-2009

Hello Ed How are you? I'm absolutely roasting here in East of England but not complaining. Anyway, thought that I would give you some feedback for the last week. I haven't got a race on day 19 and next race is a 10miler on the flat on Saturday 25th July. What days in the programme should I follow up until then?
I'm doing Day 13 60mins easy today.

Day 7 10k easy 49mins 47secs, 10.11k 4mins 56secs per km
HR 135av 140max. Hot, flat.
Day 8 6x1km 3mins 50secs HR 164av, ?max
1min 6 secs rest 129av
3mins 53secs 157av, 170max
1min 1 secs rest 138av
3mins 53secs 151av, 165max
1min rest 145av
3mins 54secs 153av, 164max
1min rest 148av
3mins 55secs 157av, 170max
1min rest 152av
3mins 57secs 157av, 170max

Av 3mins 54secs per km. Hot breezy and flat

Day 9 30mins easy, 30mins 4secs, 6.14km 4mins 54secs per km
HR 128av, 133 max. Warm, flat and breezy

Day 10 60mins easy, 56mins 58secs. Distance? Pace?
HR 135av, 138max. Warm, windy and flat, off road.

Day 11 Rest

Day 12 5k paced run. 20mins 26secs, Av 4 mins 5secs per km.
Very humid, breezy and flat. Breakdown of k's:
4mins 7 secs HR 147av, 155 max
4mins 9 secs 158av, 158 max
4mins 1 secs 160av, 161 max
4mins 5 secs 162av, 164 max
4mins 4 secs 167av, 168 max

I look forward to hearing from you. It is very much appreciated what you offer on this website. Hopefully other subscribers feel the same.