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How do I break 37 and 80? - Swerunner - 19-11-2009

I'm a 37yr old guy that has runned since 2004. I average about 50k/wk over the year. My PBs are 37:49 10k, 1:21:22 half and 2:54 marathon.

My aim for next year is to break 37min 10k and 1:20 for the half. The thing is, I have a very twisted running profile. I ran 2:58 for the marathon, but I could barely do sub 40 for the 10k. I'm very comfortable at speeds from anaerobic threshold to marathon (which in my case is approx 15s/k apart). I can up my milage from 50k/wk to around 90k/wk and do sessions at marathon speed, like 4x5k, 3x6k etc) without any problems. But as soon as I try to do VO2 sessions I'm faaaar of the calculated pace I should be able to sustain. I does get somewhat better after a few weeks, but I suffer immensly trying to do these sessions.

How should I go about the quality sessions (1000's and 2000's) in your program? Should I try to stick to 3'30/k for 1000's even if the last reps will be slower and then gradually get better or should I find the pace that takes me through all reps? The 2000's scare me! Too me, running 90 min at 4-pace/k is so much easier that doing 5x2000m at 3'40/k with only 60-90s rest.

Any suggestions on how to break through this anaerobic ghost of mine? I would be very thankful for any suggestions that could help me reach my goals for next year! :please:

How do I break 37 and 80? - TheEd - 19-11-2009

Hej och Välkommen Swerunner to the forums

first off, are you currently training on the 10km program?

the 2000's should scare you because if you master them, thn running sub 37 minutes for 10km should be a breeze Wink

what shape are you in currently and would you consider doing a 4 km time-trial and then I can revamp your 10km program accordingly?

Have you a 400m tartan or grass track close by or with winter will you do the sessions indoors?

Over to you and chat soon



How do I break 37 and 80? - Swerunner - 20-11-2009

Hej Da Ed!

Thank's for your quick reply. I like this site alot! I stumbled over the forum yesterday and read through some of the treads. This convinced me to try your program as one gets good feeback on the training and progression. Since my target for next year is to break 80min for the half and better my 10k PB it seems that this could do me good.

I've just came out of 8wks marathon training. I followed a Canova inspired program from a friend and did approx. 90k/wk of which 40-45k were runned at goal marathon pace (3'55-4'00/k). I was in 2.52-2.53 shape, but I blew up as I went for 2.48 :duh:
4wks into the program I ran the half in 1.21.22 at even pace (that's my thing), killing my PB with 1min 23s. After the marathon, I rested 1wk, then I got the flu and I started my base work just now (after three weeks rest). I'm planning on doing 60-70k/wk with hill sprints, progressive runs and long runs. I january I'm going to Kenya to train for 2 wks :wow: Then I'm ready to embark on your program in order to obtain my goals.

Training facillites
I'm lucky as I live next to a huge area with a lot of running paths in the forest as well as just next to a 400m tartan track. So yes, I can do speed work on a track. If you want I can do a 4k time trail next week just to see where I land, but this would be without any speed training for 6 months including a flu and 3wks rest.

Well, so basically I'm ready to go through your cycles from january and keep on it til august. Hopefully I'll see some new PB's

How do I break 37 and 80? - TheEd - 20-11-2009

that sounds excellent

if you are able to train on the 400m track occasionally that is most helpful

you could do the 4k time-trial now as a marker or leave it till you return from training in 2010

with the 10km program the ability to run faster will be developed and you are in a good position as you seem to be able to maintain your pace effectively

if you do the 4k then 400m split feedback would be great

if you have a heart rate monitor then that data will also be of use



How do I break 37 and 80? - Swerunner - 20-11-2009

Hej TheEd,

You're absolutley right about my strenght i being able to keep my pace. Since one tends to train on what one's good at, I can tell you that I'm a master of anaerobic threshold training. So I realised that in order to take the next step I need to increase my speed. The thing is I'm not used to run fast sessions and therfore I don't know how to analyse the results. But with your feedback I feel comfortable in trying for next year.

I'm pretty annoyed with the fact that I can run a halfmarathon at 3'52/k and my 10k PB's at 3'47/k (all out.. :madSmile. Don't need to be einstein to figure out I have a speed issue...

Read some treads and saw the big Swede. He's a friend of mine and we live in the same town :laugh: I had no idea he was on this site! I can tell you he's still in recovery from his calf problems, unfortunately.

I'm psyched to start this program now! But first things first. Aerobic work till january -then I'll be back.

How do I break 37 and 80? - TheEd - 21-11-2009

please tell the BigSwede I send my regards and that I hope he recovers soon

Big Grin


How do I break 37 and 80? - Swerunner - 02-07-2012

Hi the Ed!
Long time no see. Sorry about that. Now I'm back and looking to increase my 10k speed. Smile

So, what has happened the last years. Well, I'm turning 40 this autumn...
Runningwise, my pbConfused are now: 17:18/36:38/1:21:22/2:51:57 All records are from 2010. 5 and 10k in the spring after 2wks in Kenya. The marathon from Frankfurt in the autumn. The half is from 2009.

At the moment I'm in about 1:22 half and 2:53-ish marathon form. I Just came out of extensive marathon training, so I have a lot of kmConfused in me and my aerobic capacity is quite good. I passed the half mark in Stockholm on 1:24:18, but had to drop out due to calf issues because of the really bad weather...

I log my training here: (will post after 10 postings...)

Here's an extensive gdoc of my training this passed year: (will post after 10 postings...)

Not allowed to paste links until I've done 10 postings (fair enough).. :whistle:

My aim is to run a halfmarathon in september (want to break 1.20) and in order to do that, I'd like to do 35:59 for the 10k, which is a dream goal.

I'll do a 4k time-trial in two days time with 400-splits and HR. It'll probabaly be a bit crappy, but I'll try to do my best.



How do I break 37 and 80? - Swerunner - 02-07-2012

Anything you want to know about my training or anything, just lemme know alright!

How do I break 37 and 80? - TheEd - 03-07-2012

nice Swerunner .. you should clock the 10 posts quite quickly

you must have quite a decent base to work on from the marathon training

have a current fitness mark ir would you consider a 4k time-trial so I can slot you into a routine with the pace targets at your level?

good to hear from you

ps.. (the 10 posts is aimed at putting off the spammers)

How do I break 37 and 80? - Swerunner - 03-07-2012

I just ran a marathon this past saturday. I had an infection or something and jogged in 3.16. My heart was not really there.

My current level of fitness: Two weeks ago I did a mixed session: 2x2000+2x1000+2x800+400 with 400m jog in around 2’30’’ Average speed (/k): 3’42/3’36/3’28/3’05. I also did a 4x6k with 1k jog rest (marathon session) with average speeds 4’10/4’08/4’04/4’04.

I’ve also done 8x1000, 10x1000 and 12x1000 with 1’ rests. Average always around 3’36-3’42/k. Usually the difference between the intervals are not more than 2-3s. I’m like a puffing train Smile

My aerobic base is definitely quite good. The last 10wks I’ve done looooaaads of runs at 4’/k. Like 3x5k, 4x5k, 3x6k, 4x6k etc.

So. Is this good enough or do you want me to do the 4k time-trial? If so, I’ll do it tomorrow.