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Struggling with Sub 45 10km Plan - Hansen - 15-11-2016

Hi TheEd,

Thank you for adding me to your community, your site has made a tremendous impact on a lot of people, mine included!

I'm currently starting the second cycle of the plan but found myself struggling with the hard workouts and ran a 46 minute 10 Km. That's when I reached out to you and you suggested I perform the 4km TT to determine my zones.

I finally got a break in the weather and just returned from doing a 4K TT. The results for each 400 m split:

1. 1:25:82 155bpm
2. 1:39:91 166bpm
3. 1:41:36 164bpm
4. 1:47:19 161bpm
5. 1:51:21 159bpm
6. 1:51:05 159bpm
7. 1:50:19 159bpm
8. 1:59:01 158bpm - started to really struggle but mostly mental
9. 1:51:44 158bpm - grit my teeth and gave it as I thought this was the last one.
10. No result as I miscalculated how many laps I was on.

Based on my results:
4:25 min/km X 5 km = 21:25 min
Double for 10km = 42:50 min + 1 min = 43:50 min
4:35 min rounded up is 4:40 min/km for 5x2km pace
5x2k @ 4:40 R90
6x1k @ 4:30 R60

I hope my calculations are correct since I'm not very good with handling units of time.

I know you said to skip biking while working the plan but to maintain swimming, so does that mean I can skip on the recovery runs if I'm swimming on those days and jump right into the Intervals and Fartleks, or do I need adequate rest days after swimming before a hard run session?

Thanks again for adding me.


Struggling with Sub 45 10km Plan - TheEd - 17-11-2016

Hi Hansen and welcome to the forums

thanks for providing your feedback here. I take it you looked at the 10k training program tips -

so your pace to start with looks fine. In the first cycle of the program, avoid cycling between Day 3 to Day 8. swimming should be fine, but do not look for performance in the swimming in this cycle.

from week 2 to 3 you can continue with your swimming and cycling but do take into consideration the importance of adapting to the new training

I won't go into too much info for the first reply and will rely on you to keep asking questions and to provide feedback

then ..

also of interest to you is the thread of another triathlete who used the programs:

hopefully this is good for starters


Struggling with Sub 45 10km Plan - Hansen - 17-11-2016

Thank you for the links. The information was invaluable to my understanding the program.

I will skip biking for the time being and focus on running. I'll be back to post my results soon.


Struggling with Sub 45 10km Plan - Hansen - 18-11-2016


I had a tough swimming session the night before this run (I'm talking maximum heart rate tough). It had me slightly worried about my performance for the run, but here are the numbers.

My pace is different than what is provided in the program.
Pace = 4:40 min/km with 2 minutes standing rest between sets.

10 minute warm up.

2km 9:20 pace 4:40 153bm

2km 9:09 pace 4:35 154bpm

2km 9:13 pace 4:37 155bpm

2km 9:16 pace 4:38 155bpm

Overall, the amount of effort was moderate up until the last set. My legs started to feel heavy for the last 500-600 meters but nothing to push the session into hard territory.

I noticed that my body tends to prefer 4:50 and 4:30 paces but I had a hard time maintaining 4:40. 4:40 is hard for me for some reason. I'm thinking as long as my averages work out then I can yo-yo between the two speeds? This allows for me to maintain a high cadence and lightness on my feet, or slower cadence but bigger strides.

I'm happy with these results and am looking forward to the next session.

Struggling with Sub 45 10km Plan - TheEd - 19-11-2016

Hi hansen, try not to yo yo the speeds but to teach yourself pace judgement, this is the main focus during the session

the 1st cycle is always new territory

ps.. here is another great 10k journey recorded, this time MMS

Struggling with Sub 45 10km Plan - Hansen - 20-11-2016

TheEd Wrote:Hi hansen, try not to yo yo the speeds but to teach yourself pace judgement, this is the main focus during the session

the 1st cycle is always new territory

Hi TheEd,

Ok, I'll work harder in maintaining speed from here on out.

Also, this will be my 2nd cycle. I went solo during the 1st and failed the hard sessions, but managed to get through the 5k paced and ended with a hilly 10k at 46:37.

Thanks for the links you provided. Very interesting journeys and seeing improvement in numbers.

I also noticed they provided you with some info that may prove useful and I thought I should do the same.

I'm a 38 year old male, 5'10" at around 140 lbs. I suffered a ruptured ligament in my right foot in 2008 and ran a 16 minute 5k prior to that.

My current maximum heart rate is 180 BPM. My resting heart rate is about 65 BPM.

My next session is a 90 minute time on feet.

Have a good weekend!


Struggling with Sub 45 10km Plan - TheEd - 21-11-2016

hansen, from your feedback, have you run a 16 minute 5k previously?

if so, then we must certainly be cautious you do not get injured again



Struggling with Sub 45 10km Plan - Hansen - 21-11-2016

TheEd Wrote:hansen, from your feedback, have you run a 16 minute 5k previously?

if so, then we must certainly be cautious you do not get injured again



Hi TheEd,

At my peak before rupturing my ligament I ran a 5k event in 16 minutes. I ruptured the ligament about a month after at the 5k mark of a 10k race. That was almost 9 years ago. Ironically, my 10km time was around 46-47 minute mark. I had all the short term speed but long distance I had nothing.

I feel I should add that I was still a smoker (half-a-pack a day) when I established that time. I no longer smoke.

Also, I have a high tolerance for pain and at that time I ignored my body and popped Advil and Tylenol and kept running.

It took 6 months to heal, 6 months to be able to walk properly, another 6 or so months to regain strength, and I don't remember how long it took before I was able to run 5km non-stop.

I've built a considerable amount of fear for going all out when I run. So it's hard to hit max.

I'm learning now to go slow and not be so obsessed about numbers and performance in order to stay safe and injury free. Although, I won't complain if my results are spectacular.

I did the 90 and 30 runs, will post back with 6x1 numbers. I have to skip the additional 30 recovery run as that falls on my swimming time.


Struggling with Sub 45 10km Plan - Hansen - 23-11-2016


I'm back from the 6x1km workout. Here are the summaries.

November 20, 2016
90 minutes time on feet
Distance: 15.07 km
Avg. Pace: 5:58 min/km
Avg. HR: 142

November 21, 2016
30 minutes easy
Distance: 5 km
Avg. Pace: 6:00 min/km
Avg. HR: 136

November 22, 2016
1 hour swimming with club

November 23, 2016
6x1 km with 90 seconds standing rest
10 minute warm up
1. 4:29. 158/106
2. 4:23. 149/104
3. 4:28. 150/104
4. 4:28. 149/105
5. 4:29. 149/104
6. 4:30. 149/101

Sets 1-5 were pretty moderate in intensity at about 3-4/5. Last set was about 4.5/5 because my asthma decided to join in on the fun. Overall, not a bad session. I did have to dial it down at the start of the first two sets as I was going way too fast.

I may not have been fully warmed up by the looks of the data. It is cold out (7 degrees C) and I was in shorts and a thin long sleeve.

Also, TheEd, I have this weird thing going on with my left hamstring/calf. It's not painful, but there is this discomfort directly behind my knee in the muscles. It's only bothersome at the start but after adequate warming up it goes away. When my body cools down, it comes back. I've tried stretching, strength exercises, foam rolling. They relieve the tension, but it is still there. I'm not too sure what to do or what it is.


Struggling with Sub 45 10km Plan - TheEd - 24-11-2016

nice feedback Hansen

you need to spend more time on your warm-up. If you started too quickly in the 1k session, you could have 'niggled' the ligaments associated to the hamstring at the back of the knee

drop the forthcoming 400m session and replace it with

3 x 6 minutes @ 10k pace (same effort as 2k pace or projected 10k pace) with 2 to 3 minutes in-between

the above session should be comfortable and enjoyable

your pace judgement was pretty decent, nice going

looking good, keep us informed regarding how the 'niggle' goes