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Sub 50 at 51 - heavy runner - Andyc16us - 12-12-2017

Hi TheEd,
thank you so much for all the great info on this site.
I found your 10km programs through a web search "break 50 minutes for 10km", and I was immediately struck by the neat way progression seems to be built in.
My background:
I have never been a good runner, in highschool I was the school discus champ, played rugby and ran 100m in 12.1s flat, and was in the lead over the first 20-30m, then got beaten as my top end speed was limited by being quite heavy ~80kg at 16 yrs old.

No matter, I started running casually in 2013, and over a year worked my way from 59:50 to 53:11 for 10km, on about 35km max or 4 hours per week of running, 4-5 days per week. Maximum long run was always around 60-70 minutes, everything at a slow easy pace, except leading up to my 53' PB I included 2 5k fast runs per week, no structure, as I didn't know what I was doing.
I weighed 92kg for that 53:11 PB.
I also completed a couple of 1/2 marathons on the same training, but to be honest 2:08:00 PB was not that inspiring, so I have only run intermittently since 2014, and during 2015-2016 nothing much.

So, in September this year I decided to get back running again, but this time I wanted to make some real progress. I slowly ramped my mileage from nothing, to around 5 hours every other week, and 3 hours on the lower weeks, with a long run where I have just hit 80-90 minutes for the last 2 weeks. My easy runs during the week seem to alternate 45 and 60 minutes, so I have been running ~5 days per week for the last 3 months.

I am 51 in 2 weeks, 5ft 8", 1.73m and I currently weigh 94kg - down from 108kg from Powerlifting during the Winter, which I have given up now. I would estimate I am currently around 22-25% body fat, still carrying too much muscle, but also too much fat - my waist size is 36 inches for reference.

Either this Thursday 14th Dec, or Saturday I intend to do the 4kTT, in order to choose my paces for the appropriate 10km program whether that be break 60,55,50 etc. I have a 14km race(city to surf Christchurch, NZ) on March 18th.

My ultimate goal is to train for 10k's and try to break 50 minutes, or better at >50 years of age. I never find my legs let me down when running, only my HR gets too high, and during the last 300m of my 10km PB I upped the pace to 3:30/km.

So looking at my non-runners background and maybe physiology, TheEd, do you see anything that jumps out and says I shouldn't try to proceed as planned? I feel fitter than I did in 2013, but I guess a 4kTT will be the judge of that? Or should I keep doing slower base style training for a bit longer and build mileage? I am thinking it would be good to get that 4k run out of the way and get a gauge of where I am at.

Sorry for the long post, I am very very keen to improve, and am in it for as long as I can improve :-)

Cheers, Andy

Sub 50 at 51 - heavy runner - TheEd - 12-12-2017

Welcome to the forums Andy

first off, I think you may be an inspiration to me and many others, considering your weight and age. Quite awe inspiring to say the least.

Do the 4k tt on the weekend and report back as soon as, then we can see the direction you go in. Once you on the forums, we should hopefully be able to monitor to assist you in changing the routine where needed according to you.

I think your determination will play a major role in you achieving your goal, all we need do is attempt to keep you healthy

on we go


Sub 50 at 51 - heavy runner - shadydaz - 12-12-2017

Hi Andy. Good luck, I echo TheEd's sentiments. Welcome aboard and good luck. Looking forward to following your progress Wink

Sub 50 at 51 - heavy runner - Andyc16us - 12-12-2017

Thanks TheEd and Shady, I will definitely get that 4k done asap, and report back.
Great to be on board!

Sub 50 at 51 - heavy runner - Andyc16us - 13-12-2017

Hi TheEd, so today was not as warm as the recent +30 degreesC days we have been having, ~22DegC,so I opted to do the 4k Time Trial, after 3 months of no running at anything quicker than 6:30/km.

Here are my splits, every 500m, as measured on my Suunto watch - sorry no HR, as my strap broke an I have not replaced it. I did not look at the watch the whole way, but tried to regulate the pace by feel.

4k time = 22:05.8 5:31/km.
0.5 2:50.1 5:38/km
1.0 2:42.9 5:26
1.5 2:46.0 5:33
2.0 2:46.5 5:32
2.5 2:44.6 5:29
3.0 2:46.1 5:32
3.5 2:46.5 5:29
4.0 2:40.3 5:23/km

I was a bit surprised that my pace was slower than my old 10km PB of 5:23/km, however I did that off a lot more 5k paced running, and plyometrics, so maybe I should expect to be a bit slower off only easy running.
The whole effort felt moderately hard on the breathing the whole way, with the last 500m my respiration rate noticeably quickening.
My legs felt fine however, nice and springy with no issues, and I could have run a lot faster and sprinted at the end for the 200m, but chose not to.

Looking at this I am tempted to start with the break 55 for 10km plan, with 2k pace at 5:37/km and 1k pace at 5:27, however I noticed in the MMS thread from 2009, you advised him to do the first10k plan, as you wanted to get some data first.
So before you decide, I thought it might be instructive to know what I have done the last few weeks or so(time based):

M T W Th Fr Sa Su
11/12 x 30 4kTT
4/12 50 30 60 30 30 x 90
27/11 20 40 60 45 x x x Weekend away on Business Trip.
20/11 25 45 50 45 x 60 90
13/11 30 45 30 40 x x 70
6/11 25 30 x 30 x x 60
30/10 x 25 x 30 30 x 55
23/10 x 20 30 30 25 x 45

All of the above runs were done at 6:30-6:45/km if less than an hour, and 6:45-7:00/km if over 1 hour.
Prior to 23/10 I was running about 3 days per week for no more than 30 mins per session, all easy talking pace.

Much as I would like to dive in and do the break 55 min plan, I will of course follow your lead in this matter Smile

Look forward to hearing what you think, cheers, Andy.

Sub 50 at 51 - heavy runner - TheEd - 13-12-2017

Andy, you can jump into the sub 55 minute program

so easy running till Day 1 which is Tuesday, and then the 2k session on Day 3 at the pace you mentioned

keep it comfortable for now and then you will soon be on the routine


Sub 50 at 51 - heavy runner - Andyc16us - 13-12-2017

Great! Smile I am so happy with that decision, thanks TheEd.

So for that 2k session, "start with 3x2k R90-2min", I was wondering if there was any benefit to using the full 2' recovery to begin with, and reducing that to 90" as I progress through the cycles, or just fix it at 90" and have a more incomplete recovery?

I will try and keep my posts short and succinct from now on, I can only imagine how you would get word weary when reading multiple posts.

Cheers, Andy

Sub 50 at 51 - heavy runner - TheEd - 14-12-2017

Hi Andy, first off .. keep your posts as you feel needed .. it is all good

for the 2k session .. if you need the 2 min Rest then take it according to need

on we go


Sub 50 at 51 - heavy runner - Andyc16us - 15-12-2017

Great, thanks TheEd.
I ran 60 easy on Thursday after my 4kTT, nothing on Friday(Today) as it was my company break-up meal+drinks. Big Grin
I will do a long-ish ~90min run on Saturday, Bike or 30' run on Sunday, nothing on Monday, and start the program on Tuesday.
Once on the program proper, I take it for the 30min Easy sessions, some of those could be an easy spin on the road bike, say 60 mins, but not all? - sorry re-edited this, it was a question, not a statement :-)

Being heavier, I sometimes find the day after a long run I can be a little sore, mainly around ankles and soleus, nothing too bad mind, but not after the quality sessions I am normally fine. If I just suck it up and keep running, I remain a bit sore, and it doesn't go away until I take a bit of rest.
I guess that's the 94kg at work? :-)

Will report back with the 2k test after Thurs next week.

Sub 50 at 51 - heavy runner - TheEd - 16-12-2017

the cycling must focus on spinning. The less your quadriceps are engaged the better. Legs needs to recover, so focus on this

all in all .. on to the 2k session next week Big Grin

have a good weekend