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+--- Thread: sub 35min after marathon training (/Thread-sub-35min-after-marathon-training)
sub 35min after marathon training - derele - 14-03-2011
Hi TheEd,
I followed your advice, even without reading it before the race.
300m after the start I dropped out of a big group doing the 1st k in 3:20. This was a good deccission. Runners from this group finally ran my goal-time of 1:14:xx-1:15:xx, but it just was not in the cards for me yesterday.
I did a 1:16:30. Always following the big group mentioned above in a distance. I was leading group of four all the way, had to do 100% of the pacing for the group, the others just followed. One of the runners outsprinted me on the finish-line, the other two lost 30 and 60s on the last 4k. The splits were:
| Split | Avg Pace | Avg HR | Max HR |
| 1 | 03:33 | 157 | 164 |
| 2 | 03:36 | 164 | 165 |
| 3 | 03:39 | 166 | 168 |
| 4 | 03:33 | 167 | 170 |
| 5 | 03:36 | 168 | 170 |
| 6 | 03:36 | 167 | 170 |
| 7 | 03:36 | 169 | 172 |
| 8 | 03:37 | 169 | 172 |
| 9 | 03:37 | 169 | 171 |
| 10 | 03:39 | 168 | 171 |
| 11 | 03:39 | 168 | 171 |
| 12 | 03:41 | 168 | 170 |
| 13 | 03:39 | 169 | 172 |
| 14 | 03:39 | 169 | 171 |
| 15 | 03:37 | 170 | 172 |
| 16 | 03:39 | 171 | 172 |
| 17 | 03:38 | 171 | 173 |
| 18 | 03:38 | 172 | 173 |
| 19 | 03:43 | 173 | 174 |
| 20 | 03:39 | 173 | 176 |
| 21 | 03:35 | 174 | 178 |
| 22 | 03:32 | 178 | 180 |
| Summary | 03:38 | 169 | 180 |
The HR was quite high from the beginning (much higher than I would have expected). And I also did get a bit slower towards the end.
But the good thing is I was able to do a very very slow (~6min/k) run this morning and felt okay. I will do some Aqua-Jogging this evening and tomorrow morning and will probably be able to return to normal training from tomorrow evening on.
derele
sub 35min after marathon training - TheEd - 14-03-2011
in general quite a steady pace but is this not a PB?
be very aware after a solid race like this, that you don't train too hard too close to the race as it can bring you into better form too early before the marathon
seems like you have all under control
TheEd
sub 35min after marathon training - derele - 14-03-2011
Hi TheEd,
it is a PB by 3:27min, I am just too greedy
... In my last HM my goal was 1:24:x and I ran 1:19:57. I had the secret hope for a leap in performance similar (on a smaller scale of course) to this.
It is also the first time in a proper race (not counting 2 races I droped out and the marathon, as on that distance calculators/tables do not work) that I couldn't improve the calculated vdot value from the last race: My 15k time from 9 weeks ago was slightly better according to Jack Daniel's formula.
Just came home from swiming and feel good. Tomorrow morning another swim and a slow 12k run in the evening. On Wednesday a bit more quantity (am 8k, pm 15k) and I will see if I can fit in some quality Intervals on Thursday or Friday, before the long run on Sunday.
Cheers,
derele
sub 35min after marathon training - TheEd - 14-03-2011
what is the longest run you will do?
do you work on distance or time
for my top athletes we liked to work on that they run the time they want to finish in as there longest run
so 2:10 if that was the aim or for example
2.20
2.30
2.40
etc
Makes for interesting thoughts
TheEd
sub 35min after marathon training - derele - 15-03-2011
Hi TheEd,
My long runs are 35km. I do a speed up to marathon-pace for an increasing distance at the end. The last was 6km, the run took me 2:35 in total. On Sunday the MP will be for 12k, I will make sure to run a bit slower at the beginning to finish the whole run not much faster overall.
The last long run will be Sunday in a week with 15k MP.
Here are the splits for my long with the 6k mp:
| Split | Time | Distance | Avg HR | Max HR |
| 1 | 00:04:55 | 1,00 | 161 | 174 | * wrong HR when the strap is not wet enough??
| 2 | 00:04:49 | 1,00 | 132 | 168 |
| 3 | 00:04:42 | 1,00 | 126 | 136 |
| 4 | 00:04:42 | 1,00 | 125 | 129 |
| 5 | 00:04:41 | 1,00 | 127 | 129 |
| 6 | 00:04:41 | 1,00 | 122 | 128 |
| 7 | 00:04:38 | 1,00 | 129 | 137 |
| 8 | 00:04:34 | 1,00 | 124 | 129 |
| 9 | 00:04:45 | 1,00 | 126 | 130 |
| 10 | 00:04:32 | 1,00 | 128 | 131 |
| 11 | 00:04:31 | 1,00 | 127 | 130 |
| 12 | 00:04:38 | 1,00 | 121 | 131 |
| 13 | 00:04:27 | 1,00 | 128 | 131 |
| 14 | 00:04:26 | 1,00 | 130 | 134 |
| 15 | 00:04:27 | 1,00 | 130 | 133 |
| 16 | 00:04:28 | 1,00 | 130 | 134 |
| 17 | 00:04:30 | 1,00 | 131 | 134 |
| 18 | 00:04:26 | 1,00 | 133 | 140 |
| 19 | 00:04:23 | 1,00 | 132 | 140 |
| 20 | 00:04:25 | 1,00 | 134 | 138 |
| 21 | 00:04:23 | 1,00 | 136 | 142 |
| 22 | 00:04:25 | 1,00 | 136 | 140 |
| 23 | 00:04:21 | 1,00 | 136 | 142 |
| 24 | 00:04:27 | 1,00 | 136 | 139 |
| 25 | 00:04:26 | 1,00 | 136 | 140 |
| 26 | 00:04:27 | 1,00 | 138 | 143 |
| 27 | 00:04:30 | 1,00 | 140 | 143 |
| 28 | 00:04:19 | 1,00 | 144 | 148 |
| 29 | 00:03:48 | 1,00 | 153 | 162 |
| 30 | 00:03:48 | 1,00 | 164 | 168 |
| 31 | 00:03:46 | 1,00 | 167 | 170 |
| 32 | 00:03:42 | 1,00 | 170 | 171 |
| 33 | 00:03:43 | 1,00 | 172 | 175 |
| 34 | 00:03:44 | 1,00 | 175 | 177 |
| 35 | 00:04:40 | 1,00 | 155 | 176 |
| 36 | 00:01:05 | 0,24 | 152 | 153 |
| Summary | 02:35:29 | 35,24 | 138 | 177 |
It is fun conting down the workouts: Only 2 long, 3 Intervals and 2 Tempo-Runs left.
Cheers,
derele
sub 35min after marathon training - TheEd - 15-03-2011
that's a good session (the recording pulse ranges)
well on your way
Have you decided what pace you want to go through the half in on race day?
TheEd
sub 35min after marathon training - derele - 16-03-2011
Hi TheEd,
yes, I know the HR ranges are quite good (that's one reason I thought the Half could have been a bit faster).
Fro my last Half-Marathon/Marathon performance I get a factor of
"2:51:13" / "1:19:57" = 10273 / 4797 = 2.141547
This is quite bad as an average factor seems to be around 2.11
I guess a good goal for my marathon pace would be somewhere between
"1:16:30" *2.11 = "2:41:25" = 3:49.5 / km
and
"1:16:30"*2.14 ="2:43:43" = 3:52.7 / km
but I still dream of sub 2:40... which would mean a factor of less than 2.091503
The next few days are quite decissive: I yesterday did a 8k p.m. run (a.m. swimming) and felt horrible, 6/km pace.
Today a 11k am run felt much better and I could run normal regenerative pace of 4:50/k. I will be cautious and do only another 11k at pm today and see if I rebound. If I could do two weeks of good training I would probably try to go for the 2:40... with even splits so
1:20 at the half!
sub 35min after marathon training - TheEd - 16-03-2011
most marathoners go through a period in the last part of their build-up where they feel tired and lousy
so everything must be going according to plan
TheEd
sub 35min after marathon training - derele - 18-03-2011
Hmmm,
I would agree if there would not be this shin splints issue. On the am run (11k) on Wednesday it seemed to get better, on the pm run (10k) it was worse again. I failed to run even my most regenerative pace again...
Two things learned from this:
1. The inflammation seems to be worse in the evenings
2. I have to take some action, even regenerative pace has a bad effect at the moment
I went to the doc yesterday, got some perscription for physiotherapy and did a gym-session of 40min on a bike (hard) and 30min on a X-trainer (medium hard).
Today will be the first appointment for physio. I spent the whole day yesterday searching for a appropriate therapist. I had a good therapist 80km from where I live now, but going there regularly is not an option. With appropriate I mean one that is used to work with competitive athletes and spends substantially more time than given on the doc's perscription if needed.
I hope the new one is as good as it sounds on the phone. Would be a great having medical support at hand.
No thoughts of doing the interval-workout today. I will probably even be necessary to drop the long run on Sunday. Last long run was dropped because of the Half, this would make two weeks without a long run...
derele
sub 35min after marathon training - derele - 26-03-2011
Hi TheEd,
I will cancel the Marthon!
I can't run a long run this weekend. This would mean the last 4 weeks before the Marathon without proper long runs.
I have planned an off-period during May. I can't prepone it because it falls into well-deserved hollidays!
If my shin feels good in a week, I would love to do a little racing period during April, or at least two normal cycles. I think I am still in very good shape and keep cross-training. Maybe I can get some new 5k-10k-HM PBs out of the stupid Marthon training.
Once I am back to normal running I will post possible races and ask you for advice on a good racing schedule.
If my shin does not recover it will be a very long off-period and build-up. This could still make sense after a whole year of running, I guess...
Lots of stupid mistakes during the Marathon prep. I will stick to your advice and schedules in future. I was very healthy and progress was good over winter, I am looking forward to a new "season" on the program over summer!
Cheers,
derele
P.S. My new physio-therapist is great. She was a middle-distance runner and coach! We are working on improving my running form and on some small muscular imbalances... Could be a major benefit from this small injury.