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sub 35min after marathon training - derele - 05-10-2010

Hi TheEd,

I had a 6.5k handicap race on Thursday on a really tough course. Felt a bit ill and took it slowly. I also got my handicap based on my marathon and half marathon time and had to start at the very back of the field, came in last with not getting in touch with any of the other runners.I averaged 3:48min/km and felt not too good about it afterwards. Skipped the long run on the weekend to do rather two than one speed sessions this week

Ran 6x1km today with:

rep pace
1 3:26 169
2 3:23 170
3 3:30 168
4 3:30 167
5 3:28 169
6 3:26 168

Have to upload the data from the watch to get max hr, will do that once I am on a windows box.
The session felt quite enjoyable. I am skipping the 5km race scheduled for next weekend and do the next 10k on 17th, as I feel the need to get done a bit more speedwork before feeling comfy with racing.
Planned quality sessions for next 10 days:

Thu or Fri. 8x400m in 78s
So. 5km paced in 18min
Wed. 8x400m in 78s
Fri. your bread and butter fartlek
Sun. Race close to 36min

Twice a day easy on the other days.

This will basically mean a 400m session added to you schedule but reducing the reps to 8 each.

Good plan? Another option I thought of would be to do short hill-reps instead of one of the 400s...


sub 35min after marathon training - TheEd - 06-10-2010

darele .. no hill reps and replace 400m session with 3 x 5 minutes paced @ 10 k pace with 60 seconds recovery in-between

keep in mind you have recently run a marathon .. don't lose all that build up work (marathon training) by being impatient

roll with the cycles more to get used to the routine than looking to gain speed ... the speed will come when the body is ready to absorb and reproduce .. looking for the speed now may have a reverse effect

give yourself time for proper recovery and use the program to get used to the cycle .. let me know how the balance is working out ..



sub 35min after marathon training - derele - 07-10-2010

Okay! Thanks for the sound advice!

I will do the 3x5min session today at present 10k speed. This will be be somewhere around 3:36min/km!? I will see whether am fit for 10x400 next week or have reduce reps. I will give feedback after the 5k paced on Sunday.

I had to reschedule some races and will have almost perfect 3 week cycles (2 exceptions), leading to longer cycles and longer races in 2011. Already booked my 2nd marathon:

17.10.2010 10k
3 Weeks
07.11.2010 10k
2 Weeks
20.11.2010 8.1k hill race
3 Weeks
12.12.2010 10k
31.12.2010 10k
10 days
09.01.2011 15k
06.02.2011 20k
13.03.2011 HM
10.04.2011 Paris-Marathon

I will try to keep doing 100+k/week during the 10k period to be able to up increase it to 160+k peak in 2011.


sub 35min after marathon training - TheEd - 07-10-2010

we can shuffle sessions and balance the training for when there is only 2 weeks to an event

go on a feel for the 5 minute session and 3.40 would be fine

its the routine that needs getting used to for now

ps.. how did the session go?

sub 35min after marathon training - derele - 08-10-2010

The session was horrible:
Had a) some lower back pain, induced by moving back to Germany on Wednesday and carrying all those heavy suitcases. Did b) the session on the way back home from a friend's birthday party, where I avoided drinking alcohol but ate a bit to much cake...:duh:

av. pace for the reps was 3:44, 3:50 and 3:48

Went to the doc for my lower back pain today and he diagnosed Spondylolistesis. I am still allowed to run, if pain allows.
This diagnosis is in fact kind of good news, because it probably explains the recurring hamstring problems I am having from time to time. I already found good treatment advice searching youtube for "spondilo drop" I am optimistic I will be able to cure it with this technique (easyly reproducable at home). I also will inrcease the amount of the core-strength work I am doing.

I will take the 5k paced run on Sunday or skip it completely, according to how my back feels.


sub 35min after marathon training - TheEd - 08-10-2010

this doesn't sound like fun but may be a blessing in disguise as it will force you to be a little slower and more cautious

be patient as I believe you have a bit of talent to achieve your goals but must arrive at being healthy for the challenge

please keep me informed and hopefully everything clears in good time

a good weekend to you


sub 35min after marathon training - derele - 12-10-2010

Yes, I like your attitude to injury. I find it is much easier in running than in team sports to hold back, when my body tells me to do so.

I did no hard workout during the weekend but 2 ~1hr runs, another hr yesterday (Mo.) I will see how I feel on today's evening run and will probably do some kind of very easy cruise intervals. Imo 400s don't make much sense, as they are much about running-form and this will suffer from the back pain.


sub 35min after marathon training - TheEd - 12-10-2010

are you speaking 400's in general or 400's on the 10km program

the 400's on our 10km program are aimed at developing 3k pace which in itself assists the 5k pace long-term

hope this helps

ps.. make sure to avoid injury

sub 35min after marathon training - derele - 12-10-2010

I am speaking of 400s in general. I always thought, that their main benefit is running form and VO2max development... as most important for 3-5k pace :mmm:

Yes, my focus is not to get injured. Will not program any intervals in my watch today (just about to start), as I always feel obliged to do them if they are there... and just run as I feel.

I am keen on starting the first proper cycle next week, after the 10k on Sunday.

sub 35min after marathon training - TheEd - 12-10-2010

actually in our programs the 2000m session would be more beneficial to running form and would develop speed endurance to a premium

the 400's are only introduced from the sub 40 minute 10km program onwards and these are aimed at improving pace (speed) normally 10 seconds quicker per k than the 5k pace

hope this helps

ps.. after the 10km you should have an indication as to whether you are ready