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sub 35min after marathon training - TheEd - 18-11-2010

derele were you taking 60 second Rest between the 1000's

only last week you did the 2k session with 90 second Rest for the first time

day 3 to day 8 is the part of the program that needs to be adapted to to get the benefits, so far we are yet to do the cycle according to the sub 35 minute 10km program

so we have to be patient and work towards the actual weekly cycle of the program and adapt to the pattern, you will most likely get results along the way and will also have bad days until the body gets into the rhythm of the cycle

good luck hope the current feeling is a minor blip



sub 35min after marathon training - derele - 18-11-2010

Yes 60s rest. 90s for the 2000s last Friday. I thought that would be a big difference coming from equal time rests during marathon training (and wanted to introduce it gradually therefore), but it actually is not a problem at all.

The thing that makes me wonder is, that I am looking for improvements in the anaerobic ability and lactate tolerance. I want to be able to run longer at HR>90%(171). The opposite is happening at the moment: I can run the same pace as 2 month ago at a lower HR, but can't run any faster...

I will do the hill-race on Saturday.
Do you think it could make sense to substitute the long run the week after with a short rep session, to work against the problems I seem to experience?


sub 35min after marathon training - TheEd - 18-11-2010

you need to go through the cycles as per 'script' a few times and the 1000m session and 400m session will have you developing in the right direction

after a marathon this sometimes can take a little longer

however you should get there


sub 35min after marathon training - derele - 19-11-2010

Yes, I will aim to do the next 2 cycles 100% according to the schedule!
I should probably get used to the fact that in the region I am now improvements are not as fast and big as half a year ago.
The hill-race should get my HR over 90%, hope my muscles will be okay...


sub 35min after marathon training - TheEd - 19-11-2010

for the hill race it can often be the downhills that cause the most damage

once you get into the proper routine you may find a decent switch take place

getting the balance right is important

to run sub 35 minute for 10km you should be able to run a 17 minute 5km which would then see you doing 1000's around 3.20 per k

so progress must be in stages and natural

Cheers and enjoy


sub 35min after marathon training - derele - 21-11-2010

The hill race was point-to-point only uphill, there were buses back down. My muscles are feeling fine. In fact much better than after a flat 10k.

Finishing times for the 8.1k 500m elevation gain are usually equal to 10k times for the top runners. Slower runners add some time to their hill-race time.

I did a 35:10.

| Time | Distance | Elevation Gain | Avg Pace | Avg HR | Max HR |
| 00:03:42 | 1.00 | 23 | 03:42 | 156 | 168 |
| 00:04:02 | 1.00 | 38 | 04:02 | 167 | 169 |
| 00:04:30 | 1.00 | 87 | 04:30 | 171 | 173 |
| 00:04:37 | 1.00 | 75 | 04:37 | 174 | 176 |
| 00:04:40 | 1.00 | 78 | 04:40 | 176 | 177 |
| 00:04:30 | 1.00 | 66 | 04:30 | 177 | 178 |
| 00:04:42 | 1.00 | 77 | 04:42 | 177 | 179 |
| 00:04:20 | 1.00 | 48 | 04:20 | 178 | 179 |
| 00:00:23 | 0.05 | 0 | 07:12 | 175 | 176 | Did not hit stop on my whatch on time
| 00:35:28 | 8.05 | 492 | 04:24 | 172 | 179 |

Brought my HR better up than the 10ks and Intervall sessions. My muscles are feeling so good, that I think I should incorporate uphill running more often into my schedule.


sub 35min after marathon training - TheEd - 21-11-2010

derele .. nice to have the feeling legs are OK however let's see the 2nd or 3rd day after as that is normally when DOMS tends to say hello

DOMS = delayed onset muscle soreness

and if he doesn't pay a visit then all the better

as for the hillwork .. let's pop a sub 35 minute before moving to the hills and we can incorporate it via the natural progression

do remem .. have used the programs all the way through the 10k ranges (to sub 29) and hills definitely do play a part in the progressive nature of this program



sub 35min after marathon training - derele - 22-11-2010

No trace of DOMS. Feeling very well during this mornings am run. However I will not make the same mistake as last cycle: Today I will do moderate am 7k pm 7k.
My focus will be on being fresh for hard Intervals.
The two 10k races in the coming 6 Weeks are the last on my schedule, afterwards in 2011 I will progress to 15-20-HM-M.
I will sacrifice some of my mileage to reach my goals in the 10ks before that.


sub 35min after marathon training - TheEd - 22-11-2010

derele .. in truth once you hit the sub 35 in a race you will not need to sacrifice much in long runs etc as the 1st Sunday (weekend) run can be a 2hr run or up to the magic 30km run that is often seen as the magic number

as mentioned .. the progressive nature of the program incorporates everything

currently you are doing am runs however in the past runners have hit sub 35 on the programs before incorporating the am runs thus giving them more to enhance their development

from years of experience it has always been noted that runners often try to duplicate the schedule of the top athletes; so in my working with the athletes we tried to do as little as possible to achieve the target before moving to the next level

enhance the natural ability before killing the ability with too much

you have a good base from marathon running and you should be able to keep a number of the elements while still getting the best out of the program

let's hope Mr DOMS stays away and the next quality session is a good one



sub 35min after marathon training - derele - 24-11-2010

I understand your point on "room for further development of the training schedule".

On the other hand:
-Running to work and back is the the most natural way for me to integrate running in my daily life.
-My doubles are very low intensity and medium mileage: there is still much room to enhance the program.
-When I started doing doubles half a year ago I was not duplicating top runners, I did not know anything about running training of top runners. I just started as a means of transportation. I like it this way, it is like fishing and eating the fish afterwards, just feels natural.

I am well rested for tomorrows 2ks. Will aim at 7min tomorrow.